STEVE GOLDSTEIN: Thousands of people peacefully protested around the Valley last night, calling for an end to police violence against people of color. In downtown Phoenix, a crowd of about 1,500 protesters marched from city hall to the Phoenix police headquarters. Hundreds of protesters gathered at the state Capitol in an event organized by local churches. They demanded change following the death of George Floyd by Minneapolis police officer last week and the shooting of black motorist Dion Johnson by an Arizona state trooper last Friday. Last night marked the sixth-straight night of protests in downtown Phoenix. Hundreds were arrested over the weekend for various alleged violations, including disobeying the state's emergency curfew order. Jeri Williams is the Phoenix police chief and she's with me. Chief, you're a law enforcement veteran, an African American and a mom. So what was your reaction when you saw the George Floyd video, and did you speak with your adult sons about it?
→ Arizona Voices: Race, Diversity And The Black Lives Matter Movement
JERI WILLIAMS: So just thinking in context of African Americans in general and our relationship with law enforcement, we've worked so hard to develop and establish relationships with people of color, and to see that happen for the world to see, and almost — just absolute disregard for human life in that instance was horrific. As soon as the video comes out, both of my sons reached out to me. One is a firefighter, and one's a former Suns player. And so they're both reaching out saying, "Mom, can — did you see this video? Did you see it?" You know, that's just horrible. And I said it before. It actually hurts my heart to see what's happening happen, because I love being a police officer. It's in my blood, it's in my heart. But as a person of color, it's just baffling that that's happening.
GOLDSTEIN: Is there a problem of systemic racism, even if there are only a few people who actually practice it in law enforcement generally?
WILLIAMS: So I've been in this business for 30 years, and I don't think it's a systemic problem. Is it a problem? Yes. Are there scars that, that the law enforcement profession has given to people of color or people — that would be a yes. So those scars, anytime this happens, it's ripping at that scar just once again, once again. And progressive chiefs are really working hard to develop good relationships, good policing, good tactics, good optics. And when this happens, this literally set us back 30, 40 years.
GOLDSTEIN: You mentioned the scarring. Were you surprised, nationally, locally, how the video of this George Floyd situation caused so much action across the country?
WILLIAMS: So this is unlike anything I've ever seen in my existence. My team and I have been talking about how this is an unprecedented time in America. It's probably an unprecedented time in the world — I'm not sure what's going on globally, because we don't pay attention to things nationally. But I, I'm, I'm baffled by how widespread and at times how violent things have become. And it doesn't seem to be an end in sight. And so we're we're meeting with or I'm meeting with different organizations behind the scenes. You know, you see others across the country being very forward about their engagement with different community members. I'm definitely doing the same, but I'm doing it in a, in a backdoor kind of way where I'm meeting with key individuals in the community, and hopefully get a chance to meet with some of the key individuals who are organizing these demonstrations.
GOLDSTEIN: There has been controversy in the past about how protesters have been handled in Phoenix. You've made changes there. So was the response to the protesters appropriate? We look at some aspects where we see tear gas and rubber bullets, and then we also see a situation where officers are kneeling with the protesters. Has this been handled the way you want it to be handled?
WILLIAMS: So what I love about my agency is that we're able to assert force when necessary, when met with resistance, when met with the type of force. But what you're seeing with the officers kneeling in the last two nights in a row, thank God, is a peaceful resolution. So when it's a peaceful resolution, my guys know just to stand and look at, and to make sure properties and damage and people aren't damaged. Also, we meet whatever force the demonstrators present themselves with. I'm very thankful that for the last two nights, whomever those organizers are out there, thank you very much for ending peacefully so that we can all go home safely. That's always been our goal. And for the last two nights, everyone... It's been a win for everyone. The protesters got to demonstrate and exercise their rights, and police got to do what we signed up to do, and that's to protect and serve.
GOLDSTEIN: Did your officers have to change their mindset, though, from the initial thrust of this?
WILLIAMS: Yeah, always. So we're always adjusting, we're always learning, we're always improving. Every evening before the demonstrations began and every evening after they're over, we are constantly assessing and reassessing what worked, what didn't. What can we do differently?
But at the same time, my guys always happen — I should say guys and gals, can't believe I said that — anyways, my guys and gals always have to be ready to utilize force options or to de-escalate those force options. And we've been able to do that successfully.
GOLDSTEIN: What do you think of the curfew and has that made a difference either way for you?
WILLIAMS: So I think it has helped to minimize the length of time that people are allowed to demonstrate. I mean, we were doing three and four o'clock in the mornings for a while there. And that's very challenging to — it's challenging to everyone. I'm sure it's to the people demonstrating, protesting. So that has given us a little bit of a window and some cushions, and just an additional tool. So I'm thankful for it.
GOLDSTEIN: Chief, what's going to make trust grow? Whether it's in Phoenix or other big cities when it comes to people of color and dealing with law enforcement.
WILLIAMS: So I think this is definitely going to be a part of it, because if nothing else ... law enforcement's gonna be forced to listen because there, there, there is no way that all the demonstrations are going to happen and there not be some type of change. Is that change policy? Perhaps. Is that change laws — something I don't control. Is that change practices? Absolutely. I can, and training for my employees. So that's definitely going to happen. But what I think is important is that law enforcement leaders sit down at the table and hear people out. And if we can make the changes provided they're within the confines of the law, then we make those changes. If they're not in the confines of the law, then speak to the right individuals who can make those law changes if necessary.
GOLDSTEIN: And, Chief, how many generations is that going to take? Not to be cynical.
WILLIAMS: I, I couldn't tell you. But I'll tell you this. I'm not going to stop time.
GOLDSTEIN: That is Phoenix Police Chief Jeri Williams. Chief, thank you so much, and stay well. We appreciate your work.
WILLIAMS: OK, thank you.
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