MARK BRODIE: Offices across Arizona, and the country, have been undergoing changes — especially since the pandemic, when many workers did their jobs remotely. There have also been a lot of conversations about how to get employees back to the office, and what kinds of office spaces they want.
ADAM GOODMAN: That’s kind of the way the office design process works — it’s one size misfits all. There’s a small group of people making decisions for a large group of people, and they can’t possibly anticipate or understand all the different nuances of all the employees.
BRODIE: That’s Adam Goodman, CEO of Goodman’s, the Phoenix-based office furniture store. As in, the company that helps other companies design their offices. Goodman says before the pandemic, 80% of his employees were there in-person. Between 2020 and earlier this year, that number dropped to 5%. He wanted to bring more workers back to the office, but he didn’t want to force them to — he wanted them to want to come in. So, Goodman’s spent about a year renovating its space — which is a combined office and showroom. But before jumping in, the company enlisted a research company to interview their employees about what kind of workspaces would incentivize them to come back to the office.
GOODMAN: The headline of what they came back was, our people said they want to be able to socialize with their colleagues — and they want complete uninterrupted privacy. And those two things are in direct conflict with each other. So, we had to workshop what does that mean and how does that look.
BRODIE: One of the things I find so interesting is the fact that you did this research, given what it is you all do here. You help offices design their spaces, and yet it seems you were kind of at a loss to some extent, to figure out what to do with your own office.
GOODMAN: I wouldn’t say we were at a loss. We did design the entire office using the old paradigm that we’ve always used … which is essentially, as I look back on it now, it’s guessing what our people wanted. And we’ve done so many offices, we feel like we’re pretty good at this. And we came up with an entire plan and then found this research company and started over from the beginning. Well, if you compare those two plans together, they’re completely different. The guessing that we were doing was wrong.
BRODIE: In an effort to get it right — at least for his own employees — Goodman says the company decided to design a variety of workspaces and features. Some areas encourage workers to talk and collaborate — and even grab a cup of coffee, while others are more ‘heads-down’ spaces, with a quiet library kind of feel. And, it seems to have worked: Goodman says since the showroom opened, between 60 and 80% of his employees are in the office on any given day.
I met with Goodman earlier this year to take a look at the 20,000-square-foot space. And, he started our tour at the front door, which features classic pieces of furniture.
GOODMAN: We’ve got, if you use the music metaphor, we’ve got trendy pop music all over the space. And I’m a Swiftie, so that’s great — I love trendy pop music. But right when you walk in the door, we want to set a tone with classical music, and that’s what’s going on up here.
BRODIE: Not far from the front is a new kitchen and coffee bar — Goodman thinks of it as bringing the coffee shop you might like to work at into the office.
GOODMAN: Our break room used to be hidden in the back and it was unremarkable. We pulled it to the front. We elevated the design aesthetic. We added an island that’s like a kitchen at home — everyone gathers around the island, along with the benches, and now this is the place — it’s a magnet for drawing people in to connect with each other.
BRODIE: On the day I visited, crews were working to finish an outside patio space where employees could work al fresco — another finding from the interviews. In addition, there are traditional boardrooms, modular meeting rooms, rooms that look like old-school phone booths where workers can take or make a call and private wellness rooms complete with recliners, puzzles and other features aimed at helping workers relax. Goodman says having different spaces for different workers at different times is critical.
GOODMAN: We believe workers are shoppers and that they want to pick and choose where they do the work based on the tasks they have in front of them or the resources they need or the people they’re with. And so, all throughout the space, we have a diversity of different kinds of spaces where you can meet
BRODIE: There’s been so much discussion about open office vs. cubicles vs. offices vs. some kind of combination, bullpen, that kind of thing. Are we in a place right now where there’s sort of consensus on what the right office environment is, or are we sort of in a place where everyone’s just still trying to figure it out?
GOODMAN: There’s definitely not consensus. It’s a lot to do with the culture of the company coming in and the perspectives of the leaders. So no, there’s no consensus. I would say, however, whereas the train was moving toward open offices, call it five to 10 years ago en masse, that’s reversed course, in the sense that now every new facility is a new opportunity to rethink whether you’re open, closed or some sort of mixed.)
BRODIE: You referenced this also being a showroom. I would imagine that having all these different kinds of spaces is also — it’s good for your employees, also probably good for business, right? People come in and see the different kinds of things, maybe things they hadn’t thought about, spaces they hadn’t thought about before, and maybe ask you to do it in their office?
GOODMAN: From your lips to God’s ears, Mark … that sounds like a fantastic plan … let’s see if we can make that happen.
BRODIE: Was that a consideration when you were putting this together?
GOODMAN: Yeah, we had dual audiences we had to serve. Definitely our primary audience was our employees. But at the same time, we gotta be aware that we’re showcasing what our customers are interested in seeing. Or, ideas that’ll challenge our customers.
BRODIE: When the majority, if not all of your employees are back in this building, when you step out of whatever your space looks like, what do you imagine seeing there — and maybe what do you imagine hearing?
GOODMAN: As I go east in the building, toward the front, a hum, a buzz, laughter, a lot of laughter is really what I’m looking forward to hearing again. My office is close to the west side, so I don’t expect to hear a whole lot of laughter and a whole lot of much — this is where we’re keeping heads down and keeping it uninterrupted. And also as I’m walking through, seeing people connecting with each other spontaneously, just running into each other and having a quick impromptu conversation about something that they may not have had the opportunity to when they’re both sitting in their closets at home working remotely.
BRODIE: When you look at the kind of work that you do here, how much of what you do do you consider design, and how much do you consider maybe something like psychology?
GOODMAN: There’s a high degree of psychology involved in what we’re doing. And I think the more evolved customers that we have understand that. Look, anytime you’re changing space, you’re impacting culture. Anytime you’re changing people, you’re impacting culture — and you’re changing people just about every day. Anytime you’re changing the equipment and the furniture and the resources, you’re changing culture. When you’re changing all three at the same time: your space, your people and your resources, that’s gonna have a massive impact on your culture. And it’s either an intentional impact or it’s an unintentional impact. And what we’re trying to do is help customers be more intentional about their impact on the culture: set a target what you’re trying to accomplish and then we can help design the space to get there.
BRODIE: Goodman cautions that what worked for his company — and what his employees said they wanted — may not work for another business, or be what its workers want. But in his case, he says, the goal is to get more workers back in the workplace — in whichever part of it they’d prefer — and to bring the elements of working from home that they liked into the office.
