Last year, Mesa artist Erin Nimmer went to a conference in Utah publicly declaring her support for LGBTQ people in her church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"I in my life have experienced loneliness. I've experienced like feeling like I don't belong. And I've experienced a lot of those things that I think LGBTQ people feel within the church," she said. "And so I think that when you go through things like that, your heart kind of naturally pours out to people who have experienced those types of things.
The LDS church doesn't allow same-sex marriage. And while it says that identifying as gay, lesbian or bisexual is not a sin, it also teaches that sex must remain between a man and a woman. But the church's position on LGBTQ issues has shifted over the years.
In recent months, LDS leaders repealed rules that made same-sex marriage, something you could be excommunicated for and allowed the children of gay parents to be baptized. Then just last week, it put new restrictions on transgender members of the church.
At the same time, there is a growing community of LGBTQ members of the LDS church who are choosing to stay in it.
They're meeting next month in Utah for their second Gather conference.
Erin Nimmer went to the first, last year.
"You know, I have seen plenty of examples of people within the church. You know, gay people in the church who have been outspoken about their experience," said Nimmer. "And I think that that is huge. When people share their own experiences, it opens up your eyes and your mind to that. And you know, you want to be there for those people, and you want to advocate for those people."
She's always been an artist and used it to express her own feelings of trauma and loneliness. So she brought one of her paintings to the conference. It features a suffering figure painted in blue, surrounded by brightness, with two angel like beings comforting them.
"When I went to this conference, I had this piece of art. And to see people walk up to it and get tears in their eyes and point to that person who's struggling and say, 'That's me, and I can resonate with that. And I want to hang this on my wall, so I can be reminded that I'm not alone.' That was the most meaningful thing to me. It's a part of that, that I will always treasure," she said."
One of the organizers of the gather conference is also one of the most outspoken voices about his own experience in the LDS church as a gay man.
Ben Schilaty is a therapist, co-host of the podcast, "Questions from the Closet," and author of the book, "A Walk in My Shoes: Questions I’m Often Asked as a Gay Latter-day Saint." In his therapy practice, he works primarily with LGBTQ members of the church.
The Show spoke with him about his work, his experience and why he's felt compelled to share it
Conversation highlights
BEN SCHILATY: Coming out is an interesting thing because it happens in, in these different processes and, and stages. So I first realized I was attracted to other guys when I was about 11. But that was not a problem. It was a phase, it was going to go away. And then I was a missionary for my church for two years when I turned 19. And then when I got home from my mission at 21 that was when I had to realize, well, maybe these feelings aren't going away. Maybe ... they're a part of me.
And so I tried my very best to get married to a woman, do all the things and not be a gay person. But then at 23, I was just spiraling and just super depressed and wondering how life could ever be happy. And I just super didn't want to be gay. And then I just had to tell someone.
So I came out to my two best friends. And one of them was my roommate. And when I came out to them, I didn't use the word gay. That word scared me so much back then. And I told both of them ... that I was more attracted to men than women. And then I turned my roommate and I said, "You know, I understand if you don't want to be my roommate anymore." And he said, "Why wouldn't I want to be your roommate? You're the same person you've always been."
And that was the beginning of my personal healing, where I could say there's this thing that I hate about myself that I have judged myself for, and I'm sure you all will judge me for this. And for them to say, "No, we're not going to do that. We love you."
And so after that experience, when I was 23, I came out to other friends, my parents. And then seven years later at 30, I just came out publicly on my blog. And that was kind of skyrocketed me into ... this world that I had hadn't been a part of, of being an openly gay Latter-day Saint and, and into this new community that I hadn't been a part of before.
What made you make that decision at 30? It sounds like it's a long process, almost a decade there of slowly talking to people in your life about this. But coming up publicly is very different. Why did you do that?
SCHILATY: Yeah. You know, when I came out, when I was 23 it was because I couldn't do it anymore. Like I, I would not survive any longer without letting people know. Like, I had to do it for me. When I was 30, I saw other people who were struggling and who felt alone. And I thought, well, maybe if I come out then I can help other people and educate a community, so that people don't have to have to suffer and struggle as much as I did.
So let's talk a little bit your decision to stay in the church. I'm sure many people, if not most people in your position would have left at a certain point. And I'm sure you know many who have. Why did you decide to stay and, and continue? You wrote a book about this; you have a podcast; you are an advocate in this way. Why was that important to you?
SCHILATY: You know, the truth is that there have been many times I've seriously considered leaving. I love it. It's my home, but it's also caused me a lot of pain. And it's difficult to reconcile that something you love so much can also be hurtful and damaging. The time I was most close to leaving, I was 29. This was before I came out publicly and I, I'd fallen in love with my best friend. Who was also a gay member of the church. And he was on his way out and wanted me to go with him. And that was appealing, but I wanted to stay and make it work in the church.
And so I finally just knelt down and prayed and said, like the most sincere prayer I've ever said in my life. And, and as I prayed, I just felt this strong divine presence inviting me to move forward within the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
That means a lot for your personal life, right? Does it mean you have to be single? You can't date or you would be excommunicated? How does it work theologically?
SCHILATY: You know, theologically, what the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches is that to reach the highest degree of heaven, you need to be in a marriage between a man and a woman. And there's no way around that. That is our theology and our teachings. And it's very clear.
And so for someone like me who has chosen to stay in the church, I either need to marry a woman or I get something that's lesser than what married people get. And, you know, I don't know how that's all gonna work out. You know, I have my questions and concerns, but I also have a lot of faith and hope.
So what that means for me now as ... an openly gay Latter-day Saint is I wanna live the church's teachings on chastity, which is no sexual relations outside of marriage. And so I'm turning 40 soon. And up until this point in my life, I have never actively dated men. I just recently started dating guys. And I've talked to my local leaders and they're all fine with that. You know, as long as I keep the vow of chastity, which I plan to do.
Let's talk then about this community that you found, that you've very much helped build since you came out almost a decade ago. There's this Gather conference every year where this large community of LGBTQ people within the church come together. There are support groups, like the one you started in Tucson that you mentioned. Yell us just the breadth of this that people might not know about.
SCHILATY: Yeah, you know, we need to be with people who are like us. Who have similar life experiences, who have similar beliefs and values, that, you know, they're just people that you need to be with. You don't have to explain yourself to. Like, I don't have to tell you like what it's like to be me, you just get it. And that's what the Gather conference was all about, was let's bring together people who want to build their faith in Christ together and have Christ centered support but are also in this intersection of being LGBTQ and Latter-day Saints and their families and their friends and, and those who love them.
It was like there was this palpable feeling of love. Because for so many people, you know — I'm publicly out, and I have many gay friends. Like I could call my friend, Charlie, who I do my podcast with, you know, right now. And he would answer and I could talk about whatever I'm going through. Not everyone has that.
And so the point of the Gather conference was there are people who are lonely, who are isolated, who are struggling and they're feeling alone and they don't have to be.
