KJZZ’s Friday NewsCap revisits some of the biggest stories of the week from Arizona and beyond.
To talk about the latest debate involving Maricopa County Recorder Justin Heap, Gov. Katie Hobbs releasing her first ads of the 2026 campaign and more, The Show sat down with Doug Cole of HighGround and Gaelle Esposito of Creosote Partners.
Transcript
MARK BRODIE: Hi, I’m Mark Brodie, and this is the Friday NewsCap podcast. Each week, we review the biggest stories week with experts, reporters and commentators to put the news in perspective.
Here’s this week’s episode:
KRIS MAYES: We’re in good communication with each other about it, and I think we’ll probably be in communication, hopefully before we both release results.
ADELITA GRIJALVA: What happened? Why did they enter her home without a warrant? All of those are things that we need to understand because I don’t want people that are here legally in this country to be afraid to go out of their homes.
MITZI EPSTEIN: How are we going to enforce it? How are we going to know where the retailers are to go check and see what products they’re selling? The enforcement on this is so ridiculously soft on Big Tobacco, I can’t stand it.
BROOKE ROLLINS: We found 200,000 dead people — actually live people using dead people’s social security numbers — but 200,000 dead people getting assistance. We found 500,000 people getting more than one benefit when they should only get one.
RODNEY GLASSMAN: If Republicans nominate someone to run against Kris Mayes this November with zero experience, all we’re going to get is four more years of Kris Mayes. And Arizonans cannot afford that.
WARREN PETERSEN: I cannot support a criminal. So I may be put in a situation where I’d have to leave my ballot blank.
MARK BRODIE: And with me to talk about the latest debate involving Maricopa County Recorder Justin Heap, Gov. Hobbs releasing her first ads of the 2026 campaign and more are Doug Cole of High Ground. Doug, good morning.
DOUG COLE: Good morning, Mark.
MARK BRODIE: And Gaelle Esposito of Creosote Partners. Gaelle, good morning to you.
GAELLE ESPOSITO: Good to be here.
MARK BRODIE: So Doug, let me start with you with this latest thing with Justin Heap. He turned over, recently, some names of potential noncitizens on the voter rolls to the Arizona Attorney General’s Office.
He had already turned them over to the Maricopa County Attorney’s Office, and it basically took some strongly worded letters from the AG’s office to Heap to get him to turn them over to them.
DOUG COLE: That’s correct. He had to get, I think it was two rounds of letters from the head of the criminal division in the AG’s office to get him to refer those 137 — and then that number grew to 207, I think, at one point. And there’s still no explanation for that 70 there in the middle.
But the point being from the Attorney General’s office was, look Recorder Heap, statute says you must remove these people. You give them 35 days to correct the record. And if they don’t, then they must be, by state law, removed from the voter rolls and then criminally referred to the Attorney General’s office.
It appeared that Recorder Heap was relying on a statute dealing with voters that were newly registered. And so that’s the difference. And so now these have been referred, and hopefully they have been removed from the active voter rolls. And we’ll see what the attorney general does from here on out with that group of people. Remember, this is all coming from the motor vehicle problem of two years ago with the 61,000 voters.
MARK BRODIE: Yeah, this was was discovered a couple of years ago. It happened a long time ago.
DOUG COLE: Happened a long time ago, in 1996, yeah.
MARK BRODIE: Right. So Gaelle, any significance, do you think — and I hate to ask a cynical question, but it is politics — so any significance do you think to the fact that Recorder Heap did turn those names over to the county attorney, who is a Republican, and not the attorney general, who is a Democrat?
GAELLE ESPOSITO: Yeah, I think, you know, what we see here is once again, Attorney General Mayes had to force Recorder Heap to do his job. And this guy is full of something I can’t say on public radio and clearly not very good at his job.
And you would expect that he would understand what his role is and what his responsibility is here. But luckily we have AG Mayes, who was able to make him do his role. And I think we’re going to see that he was maybe a little ahead of his skis here at the end of the day.
MARK BRODIE: Doug, for these for these voters — obviously, you know, 207 voters, not a huge number in the overall scheme of voters — but for those people, there’s an election coming up not that long from now. What are the implications for them of potentially being in this limbo?
DOUG COLE: Well remember, let’s put this in context. Maricopa County is, at least from the elections administration standpoint, the second largest jurisdiction behind LA County for administering votes. It’s 2.6 million voters. We’re talking 137. That’s really a drop in the bucket.
There’s always been these allegations about there’s people on the voter rolls that shouldn’t be and they’re voting. And it really has not been proven to be true.
MARK BRODIE: And even these 200-some-odd people, not all of them are alleged to have actually voted.
DOUG COLE: Correct. I think 60 of them at one point in the last 10 years may have voted. But again, they’ve been removed now by state statute because the next step is the criminal referral. And then the attorney general goes through and investigates to see if any charges will be filed.
I’ll be shocked if they get one out of that group.
MARK BRODIE: One prosecution, you mean.
DOUG COLE: Charges being filed against one person. I don’t know if they’ll be at the end of the day found guilty, but yeah. Yeah, go through the court process and be prosecuted, and we’ll see what that looks like.
MARK BRODIE: Interesting. Gaelle, speaking of elections coming up, we saw this week Gov. Katie Hobbs, who’s of course running for reelection, released her first ads of the season and they focus sort of on her backstory, right? Her, you know, having driven for Uber, growing up not with a lot of money. What does that tell you about the kind of campaign that we might expect from her between now and November?
GAELLE ESPOSITO: Yeah, I think everybody knows that this is going to be an election about affordability with rising prices, particularly on things like gas and food. Folks are are going to be looking for the candidate who understands their struggles and who has a plan to address them.
And I think they’re going to find that in Gov. Hobbs, and I think she knows if she tells her story that people are going to resonate with it. I think she was highlighting the issues including affordable housing and cutting red tape for building more housing that really matter to people and I think that we’re going to see a campaign focused around that.
And I don’t even know what Andy Biggs has, right? He’s a guy that voted against the right to contraceptive access. He’s a very extreme person. He’s not focused on these issues. So I think she’s trying to highlight that contrast.
MARK BRODIE: So you think it’s a good strategy for the Governor?
GAELLE ESPOSITO: I think it is.
MARK BRODIE: Doug, do you think it’s a good strategy for her?
DOUG COLE: Absolutely. This is all, as George W. Bush used to say, all about “strategery.”
MARK BRODIE: Or at least Will Ferrell as George W. Bush.
DOUG COLE: Exactly. Exactly. In 2006, we had Janet Napolitano running. She came out early to define the field. In 2018, we had Doug Ducey running for reelection, did the same thing. They both had a bunch of money. Katie Hobbs has a bunch of money.
She has no primary. She has cleared the field. So she needs to define who she is and what she stands for. And then the next ad set will be defining him, OK, because he’s the presumptive nominee.
And she has, I think, very artfully positioned herself as, “I grew up working class. I worked at a fast food restaurant. I drove an Uber to put food on the table. My opponent is a lifelong” — this is her messaging, OK? This is what she’s saying.
“My opponent,” she’ll contrast him with being a lawyer, being a Senate President, lifelong politician, and early on he won the Publishers Clearing House and he’s a millionaire. “And I drove Uber, millionaire politician.” And this is what she’s going to say about herself.
Now, Andy Biggs will have his opportunity, which his spokesman has artfully done so far, and say she’s a do-nothing Governor, is in over her head, doesn’t know what she’s doing, all she does is veto bills.
And so, we’re going to see that contrast play out. Each team, Nicole DeMont on the on the Hobbs side and Drew Sexton on the Biggs side. These guys — Nicole, Drew and the Hobbs Hobbs team and the Biggs team — they’re really good, OK? They all have a good, experienced team behind them. This is the opening act of what’s going to be a very close race.
MARK BRODIE: Gaelle, given the fact that Gov. Hobbs has been governor now for almost four years — she was Secretary of State before that, she was in the state Legislature — how much defining of herself does she need to do? Like, do voters not really have a good sense of her?
GAELLE ESPOSITO: I think voters do have a good sense, but there’s always those group of voters who aren’t as tuned into politics as we are here talking about it on a radio show. And so you want to be able to reintroduce yourself to those voters and to be able to define yourself and tell your story again.
I know this is a story she’s told before, but I think it is one, as Doug mentioned, that helps to define her in the race and draw that contrast between a guy who won his fortune gambling on the Publishers Clearing House versus someone who was a social worker and who drove Uber. And so who’s going to really understand the struggles that voters are facing there.
DOUG COLE: And we have a history of this in Arizona. Let’s go back to the to the very, very wonderful ads that former Sen. Jon Kyl used to run, of driving around in the Navajo Nation, through Monument Valley in an old beat-up Suburban. And we’re still talking about it 20-some years later.
They work. The people remember those things, and I agree with my colleague here. You have to remind people because — especially in today’s environment — there’s so much noise, not only with TV ads but social media.
Again, this is a big social media buy she’s doing also. And you got to reach people where they are. What screen they have in front of their hand.
MARK BRODIE: Yeah, it’s not just TV anymore.
DOUG COLE: Exactly. Exactly, right. And so you need to re- reintroduce. And running unopposed, she has a lot of time and and resources to do that right now, while Biggs has an opponent with David Schweikert.
MARK BRODIE: Well Gaelle, that seems to be a key, that Gov. Hobbs kind of has the lane, as Doug referenced, the lane clear right now, at least on the primary side.
So yes, the polls have shown Andy Biggs up pretty big on David Schweikert. Who knows how accurate they are? But there is still an election for Biggs to go through, assuming that he is the nominee before he gets there.
How significant could that be for Hobbs that, if all else being equal — in what Doug is going to be a close race — that she has these couple months where she doesn’t have to worry about anything other than defining herself?
GAELLE ESPOSITO: Yeah, I mean, we’re already seeing David Schweikert throw punches. And this is a guy who has won a lot of competitive campaigns. He’s a brawler. He doesn’t hold back in the campaigns that he runs. So I think you’re going to see that primary become even more aggressive even though Andy Biggs may be leading it significantly right now.
And so I think Gov. Hobbs, just having that ability to once again define herself on her own terms, to be the one who’s out there running these ads, telling her story as she wants to tell it is going to make a huge difference.
DOUG COLE: And, and, you mentioned I think at the start of this segment here that she released ads in English and in Spanish. So, as we all know, the Hispanic vote gave Trump his victory and others because they turned out in greater numbers — they’re still not in majority numbers, but in greater numbers.
And I think that a poll that came out this week shows that support for the Republican ticket is very soft. Yeah. And I think that they’re shopping. Those voters will be shopping. So I think that her being up early on Hispanic media is very smart because she’s going to have to win over — because as we all know, there’s more Republicans by about two two and a half three hundred thousand more Republicans. But the independents are the swings, and the Hispanic male vote especially can go either which way. So, sure, very smart strategy.
MARK BRODIE: Gaelle, I want to ask you both briefly … the Arizona primary is in July, but there have been some other primaries around the country the last couple weeks. Texas this week, we’ve seen Indiana and some other states. Any lessons that you’re seeing on either the Democratic or Republican side that maybe give some clues about what to expect in a couple months here?
GAELLE ESPOSITO: Yeah, I think what you see on the Republican side is something that everybody notices, that even though Donald Trump right now is at Nixon resignation level approval rating ratings, he’s still king of the Republican Party, and his endorsement matters most in those races.
And so those Trump-backed candidates are are going to be the ones that that win those Republican primaries, and that’s just the world we live in now. And I think the interesting thing on the Democratic side is that you’re seeing this push towards fresh voices and new blood. And I think there is a generational change that’s happening.
You mentioned Texas, I think, with James Talarico there. You know, we’re seeing younger, newer candidates with a different perspective and hopefully a new message that brings people into the Democratic Party, and we secure some unexpected victories there.
MARK BRODIE: Doug, what do you think about lessons from primaries that have happened already?
DOUG COLE: Well, I think my colleague just concluded her comments by saying, “hopefully a new messaging.” Because there’s been a dearth of new messaging on the Democratic side across the country. And if they’re if they’re going to want to be victorious in these races that look like they’re going to be MAGA heavy coming out of the primary, you still have to have a message that voters want to vote for. Otherwise, they don’t vote or they just pass over that race because that person’s not offering anything that resonates with them.
Kind of goes back to what we’re just talking about with the governor’s message right now. So the Democrats really need some new messaging. They’re going to get some new messengers, it looks like, but they need some new messaging.
And as I think many have stated, with the primary this week in Texas, there there were two groups really happy about that: the MAGA Republicans and the Democrats with Talarico is now going to be facing (Attorney General Ken) Paxton, which they view as the weakest candidate.
They probably wouldn’t have had a chance against John Cornyn, the incumbent Senator that got defeated. So we got to have some new messaging, we’ve got to be — people want to be for something. Most people vote for something.
MARK BRODIE: It can’t just be “We’re not Trump, we’re not Trump.”
DOUG COLE: Yeah, we’re not Trump, and I’m not him, and I’m not MAGA, so vote for me. That does not work. That has proven time and again not to work.
MARK BRODIE: So Doug, let me stick with you about one of the, one of those primaries coming up in Arizona. There was a debate last night between the two candidates for attorney general on the Republican side: Warren Petersen and Rodney Glassman.
Seemed like they spent an awful lot of time talking about each other’s credentials and backgrounds and not so much talking about necessarily what they would do if they were elected attorney general.
DOUG COLE: Yeah, that was an unusual event last night because, one, they actually showed up for the debate. We’re seeing so many of these debates that the Clean Elections, which, by law, they are to hold. A lot of these candidates on both sides — usually the Republican side — just don’t show up. So I’m sure it was very, very good for the Clean Elections organization to say, “We have a real debate.” And that was a real debate.
MARK BRODIE: There were some differences for sure.
DOUG COLE: There are some differences there between the two, and there’s no love lost between those two individuals. And they really had to spend the time focusing on themselves. Even though Kris, the incumbent, was mentioned many times.
MARK BRODIE: Kris Mayes.
DOUG COLE: Kris Mayes, yeah. They really contrasted their personalities, their professional and political experience, because it’s very divergent. You have Rodney Glassman, who was the Democrat vice mayor of Tucson, ran against John McCain as a Democrat.
MARK BRODIE: Many years ago, we should say.
DOUG COLE: Many years ago, yeah, but it’s part of his political history. And then you have Warren Petersen, longtime creature of the Legislature. Glassman is a current JAG in the Air Force out of Luke Air Force Base, and we have a Senate President who has been in the political process for a long time and is a is a very good politician and runs the Senate very well.
So it’s going to be interesting how Republican voters come out of that, because they’re gonna — again, like the governor (candidates) — going to have a tough race to defeat an incumbent attorney general who’s been very good on consumer protection issues.
MARK BRODIE: Gaelle, when you talk about who’s going to come out of that, we heard from Warren Petersen at the beginning of the NewsCap, basically saying if he does not win the primary, he’s not sure he can vote for Rodney Glassman.
Do you get the sense that — regardless of who wins the primary — that there’s going to be some percentage of Republican voters who can’t stomach voting for the other?
GAELLE ESPOSITO: Yeah, I mean, if I’m Kris Mayes, I’m feeling real good about my chances right now. You have one guy in Rodney Glassman who believes in nothing and will run for everything. I don’t think there’s been a cycle since he ran against John McCain where he hasn’t run for one office or another, on whatever party. He has no moral center.
And then you have Warren Petersen, who’s been a lawyer maybe less than a year or a year, barely any experience, not a guy who’s ready to take on this office, who’s a lifetime politician with some incredibly extreme views.
I think if I’m Kris Mayes and I have this record, as Doug said, to run on of consumer protection, of taking on these big corporations who are taking advantage of consumers and voters, I’m feeling really good.
MARK BRODIE: Do you think the consumer aspect is what Mayes will ultimately be highlighting when she starts advertising and such?
GAELLE ESPOSITO: Yeah, if I’m her, I would, right? Both on water, on on fighting these big corporations who are just predators, on Arizonans, she has been there standing up and fighting, and I think that she’s going to have a record that’s really going to resonate.
DOUG COLE: And I think whoever comes out of this Republican primary — and there’s been no really good polling, so who knows — they’re going to go after Kris Mayes, and I think this will be a mistake on their part. They will attack her that she has filed 50 lawsuits or whatever the number is now against the Trump administration, and I think that would be a mistake on their part because they’re going to need independents to pull support to their side to cross the finish race.
Remember, Kris won by 280 —
MARK BRODIE: Less than 300 votes.
DOUG COLE: Against now-Congressman Abe Hamadeh. And so she’s going to have a tight race on her hands, but I think that that would be a mistake for the Republicans to focus on that.
MARK BRODIE: You think Republicans are going to need independents more than Mayes is going to?
DOUG COLE: Oh, she’s going to need them too, but you got to bring them over your side because this is going to be a close race, right? Just do the numbers. Remember Republicans biggest, independents right behind and then a drop-off into the Democrats. So everyone needs the independents. They got to go somewhere.
MARK BRODIE: Do you think, Doug, Republicans should be concerned that there will be some number of people, of Republican voters — like Warren Petersen said last night — who if their person doesn’t win the primary, they’re just not going to vote in that race?
DOUG COLE: Yeah, and we’ve seen that, especially in these. I know it’s the attorney general and it’s important, but it’s a — I’m air-quote — “downballet race” here. A lot of people just vote. Again, let’s remind voters for the first time since I think 2010, 2012, we have not had a U.S. Senator on the ballot. Which is highly unusual.
So top of the ballot is the governor. And a lot of people just vote that and then maybe some local races that they know of, their school districts or something, something they know, and some proposition on page four that we might have … and then of course leave the whole judges page blank, unfortunately.
But, you know, that’s how it’s going to roll. And of course that’s called an undervote, and there will be an undervote.
MARK BRODIE: So Gaelle, when you talk about Attorney General Mayes talking about consumer issues, do you see that as part of a strategy to win over those independents, maybe even some moderate Republicans?
GAELLE ESPOSITO: Yeah, and I think even as Doug said, it it would be a mistake for Republicans to focus on her fighting the Trump administration, because once again, Donald Trump is at like bottom of the barrel numbers in his approval ratings right now. People want somebody that’s going to fight back against the excesses of this administration, and I think the ways in which she has are are things that she can stand proudly behind.
So hopefully they make that attack and that she’s able to to lean into it, because I think both that and the consumer protection angle show that she is a fighter and she’s a fighter for Arizonans.
MARK BRODIE: Interesting. All right, we’ll have to leave it there. Gaelle Esposito, Doug Cole, thanks to you both for coming in, and thanks for the conversation. I appreciate it.
DOUG COLE: Thanks, Mark.
MARK BRODIE: You’ve been listening to the Friday NewsCap from KJZZ’s The Show. It’s an original podcast recapping the week's biggest stories with experts, commentators and reporters. You can get the full Show podcast at podcast.kjzz.org. I'm Mark Brodie, thanks for listening.
