The Show for May 20, 2026: Service cuts to Arizonans with disabilities, UA space prof and more

Federal Medicaid cuts could mean a loss of at-home services for Arizonans with disabilities. We’ll meet three Arizonans whose families rely on those services. Plus, a University of Arizona astrophysicist and 2026 Guggenheim Fellow who posts about all things space on Instagram.

Transcript

MARK BRODIE: Good morning. It’s the Show here on KJZZ 91.5 in Phoenix. I’m Mark Brodie. Coming up, the U of A astrophysicist who was recently named a 2026 Guggenheim Fellow. And why federal Medicaid cuts could mean a loss of at-home services for Arizonans with disabilities.

But first, a state judge says Pinal County Attorney Brad Miller was not allowed to sign an agreement with the Federal Department of Homeland Security to allow his prosecutors to enforce federal immigration laws. Miller signed the 287(g) agreement last year. The Pinal County Board of Supervisors then sued, arguing his office doesn’t have the authority to enter into such a deal. With me now to talk more about this case is Jessica Pishko, an independent journalist and lawyer. She’s also the author of the 2024 book, “The Highest Law in the Land: How the Unchecked Power of Sheriffs Threatens Democracy.” Jessica, good morning. Thanks for being here.

JESSICA PISHKO: Thanks for having me.

MARK BRODIE: So, when you read through the judge’s decision in this case, what stands out to you?

JESSICA PISHKO: I think the thing to understand about this judge’s decision in particular is that it’s pretty brief and to the point. He makes his decision not based on political reasons, but simply a statutory reading of Arizona state law. So, you know, the bulk of his argument was simply that Arizona state law does not allow the county attorney’s office to enter into contracts with the federal government without county board approval. And then he finds that the 287(g) agreement falls into that category of contracts the county attorney cannot enter into without state approval. County approval.

MARK BRODIE: And that was essentially, that was essentially the argument that the Board of Supervisors was making, right? It wasn’t so much we don’t want this kind of activity in the county, it’s that you, county attorney, can’t do this.

JESSICA PISHKO: Yes, that’s correct. The Board of Supervisors had essentially made an argument to say that the county attorney Brad Miller simply could not enter into this 287(g) agreement without approval from the Board of Supervisors.

Now, I think two important pieces of context. One is that, you know, since he became county attorney in 2024, Brad Miller has been fighting with the Pinal County Board of Supervisors over a variety of other things, including people who he hired and some other parts of his, you know, beginning of his administration. So, he started his term already contentious with the county board.

And second, I think one of the things the county board knew right away was that Brad Miller had entered into a 287(g) task force agreement, which is a specific agreement that is more active. In other words, it deputizes officers, police officers, usually, or sheriff’s deputies, to go into the community and enforce immigration law. Now, the Pinal County Sheriff has a 287(g) agreement, but it is limited to the jail. And so the Board of Supervisors has expressed no interest in a task force agreement, which is more aggressive.

MARK BRODIE: So, how significant is—and you kind of alluded to this—this is typically these 287(g) agreements are with sheriffs’ departments, right? Like with a county sheriff. How significant is it that a county attorney’s office tried to get involved in this?

JESSICA PISHKO: I think it is significant, particularly in terms of the local politics of Pinal County. Now, you know, one thing to bear in mind about Brad Miller is that he, you know, came into office after representing some of the so-called fake electors, you know, in Arizona. So, these were people who were accused of conspiracy, fraud, and forgery for submitting, you know, fake electoral votes for Trump in 2020. Now, what’s important about that is that when he became county attorney, you know, Brad Miller has continued to spout many of these same conspiracy theories. His decision to join 287(g), which he justifies under kind of, I think he has like these dubious reasons why he wants to join 287(g) that I don’t think are correct, seemed to conceal his real intent, which is to further ally himself with the MAGA movement. And he seems to want to take more power to his office. So, in other words, he’s claiming that he’s a law enforcement officer so that he can send his investigators into the community to do some form of law enforcement. Now, with midterms coming up, I do think it’s also, you know, something to think about the fact that you have other agencies claiming that they have policing power in the county, and that is something that most people do not want.

MARK BRODIE: Well, I guess so like from a practical standpoint, is there a big discrepancy or difference between what investigators from, for example, the Sheriff’s Department and the County Attorney’s Office would be doing? Like is there a big difference between having, you know, investigators from the Sheriff’s Office investigating potential immigration law violations versus those from the County Attorney’s Office?

JESSICA PISHKO: I would say yes. And the reason is that look, the Sheriff’s Office and city police, of course, are responsible for going out into the streets and enforcing and enforcing laws, right? Like traffic laws, investigating crimes, various other things. The other thing the Sheriff’s Office does is that they manage the jail. And this is where the Pinal County Sheriff’s 287(g) operates is in the jail context where you have people who have already been arrested, right? And so in that case, the immigration enforcement is happening to a segment of people who have already been arrested for something else. Now, investigators in the county attorney’s office usually are there to support the prosecution. They generally do things like interview witnesses, maybe they visit the crime scene, they might do some they might do some re-investigation, but they’re really there to support the prosecution. And as a result, they are not on the street enforcing law. That is not their job. And so to present your investigators as immigration enforcement would really only serve to intimidate people like witnesses who are the bulk of the population that these investigators interface with, right? Like witnesses, victims, people who are involved in or have been victimized by people being criminally prosecuted. That’s who those investigators are talking to. They’re not out on the street solving crimes.

MARK BRODIE: OK. So, we should point out that the county attorney’s office has suggested that an appeal might be coming. But Jessica, I’m wondering like in the last 30 seconds or so we have, are there other county attorneys or district attorneys across the country who are looking at this, or who may be looking to to sign a similar kind of agreement?

JESSICA PISHKO: I think there’s very few. My understanding is I think there’s one in Florida, although I do not know how that prosecutor is using their 287(g) agreement. But, you know, I want to say that I think that this is this decision, you know, for Arizona is good because I do think it assures the people of the state that, you know, courts are not interested in letting county attorney’s offices expand their mandate, you know, beyond prosecuting people who have already been arrested.

MARK BRODIE: OK, we’ll have to leave it there. That is Jessica Pishko, a journalist, lawyer, and author. Jessica, thanks as always, I appreciate it.

JESSICA PISHKO: Thank you.

MARK BRODIE: ASU has torn down three dorms that dated from the middle of the last century. Irish, Hayden, and Best halls opened in 1940, ’51, and ’56 respectively on the south side of ASU’s Tempe campus. All are now gone to make way for more modern student housing.

With me now in studio are two former residents of Irish Hall and two current KJZZ employees: Al Macias and Tim Agne. Guys, good morning. Welcome, thanks for being here.

AL MACIAS: Hey there, Mark.

TIM AGNE: Good morning.

MARK BRODIE: So, how long, let’s start off, how long did each of you live there? Al, you were there a few years before Tim, right?

AL MACIAS: A few years, yeah. I was a resident in Irish for two years, and then I was an RA in Best for two more years.

MARK BRODIE: So, all four of your college years were on this complex?

AL MACIAS: Well yeah, but I spent more than four years in college. I was on the five-year plan.

MARK BRODIE: Tim, how about you?

TIM AGNE: I spent two years in Irish C from 2000 to 2002. Then I moved off campus and lived in a house.

MARK BRODIE: OK. So, Al, can you guys sort of describe these buildings? I mean, they’re obviously from the ’40s and ’50s, and there were three of them that kind of made up this complex?

AL MACIAS: Yeah. Irish had three wings, and if you think it was kind of a U, and Irish C was on the southern part of that. And then just south of there was Hayden, another hall, was just a long run, and then to the west was Best, which had three wings of its own.

So initially I was at Irish C, which had a grass courtyard, which was great. Irish B had a concrete courtyard. Different group of people over there. Irish A was just also a long run.

So Irish C was an open area, we had community bathrooms at the corners of each floor. It was all male at that time. In the ’70s, the dorms were still fairly segregated. Although, jumping ahead, by the end of my tenure at Best, one of the wings had been converted into a women’s dorm. So, it was kind of the first co-ed, if you will, dorm.

MARK BRODIE: OK. And Tim, what did the buildings themselves look like?

TIM AGNE: So, the Irish B and C buildings were unique in that it was kind of an open rectangle. All of the rooms walked out to a central courtyard, so that when you went outside you could see all of the other rooms and whoever was out and about that day.

It was unique to me and one of the reasons that I had kind of chosen to live there out of the other dorms in what was then the Honors College complex, was because it felt like the vibe of a motel in Florida or something like that, a place that I had visited when I was a kid. It felt very kind of like tropical.

At that point, they had paved over that courtyard in Irish C. We had a couple of palm trees and a couple of picnic tables. There wasn’t a whole lot to do in the courtyard, but we still hung out there quite a bit.

MARK BRODIE: But you liked, the motel vibe kind of appealed to you?

TIM AGNE: It did, yeah.

MARK BRODIE: In what way?

TIM AGNE: It just felt — Arizona was exotic to me at the time. And coming from St. Louis, I was like, “Oh, this is these cool vacation vibes, and this’ll be a nice place to live.”

MARK BRODIE: So, Al, you reported a story that aired this morning on Morning Edition here on KJZZ and you talked about sort of the sense of community, like that the structure of the buildings, the courtyards, like y’all kind of knew each other?

AL MACIAS: Yeah, and kind of like Tim — although I’m from here — I had encounters with people, guys from all over the place. One of the guys I mentioned in the story, Jim Fieberg, a good friend of mine, he came from Chicago. There was other guys from other parts of the country that were there.

And, as Tim says, at the time it was an open grass courtyard. You came out, you saw somebody across the way, you talked to them, you asked them questions. Me being from here, people might ask me a few more questions about Arizona or whatever. And so it was, yeah, it just opened itself up.

And then the community bathrooms, which I referenced in the story. It was it was just the way — I mean, you went in there in the morning to take a shower, you shaved or whatever, you bump into somebody, and sometimes in the morning, you know, they weren’t in their best appearance. So, you saw people about as fresh as you could sometimes.

MARK BRODIE: Tim, did living in that kind of environment help shape your college experience, being in a place where you were like, as you said sort of the motel vibes, running into people all the time?

TIM AGNE: It did. In fact, when my parents first drove away in the rental van that they had brought me out in, I went back to my room realizing that I didn’t know anybody at this huge university. My roommate, who I had met, wasn’t home at the time.

And as I’m sitting there in my room, two guys pop their head in and ask if they can play a song for me. They’re holding acoustic guitars. They start playing this Weezer song. Another guy pops in, he’s like, “Hey, is that ‘My Name Is Jonas’?” and he just starts singing along.

And so all of a sudden, I have three brand new friends, guys that I remain friends with to this day. And they’re from all different parts of the country and of course, everybody in the dorm that year was big Weezer fans as well.

MARK BRODIE: Has the band gone on tour?

TIM AGNE: No, I think they’ve broken up since. They’re in different parts of the country now.

MARK BRODIE: Al, did it shape your college experience? Because you had four years sort of in this complex, two just sort of living there and two working.

AL MACIAS: Yeah, it did and I earlier we were talking — and I know some people might find it hard to believe — but I was I was kind of a shy, reticent guy, coming out of high school. And I think for whatever reason, just that open atmosphere just kind of encouraged me and everybody else to just open up. Nobody really — I don’t want to say held back because it wasn’t that type — but everybody was pretty open.

And we didn’t have anybody walking in and playing — and Weezer certainly wasn’t around. I mean, I think their parents were around when I was there. But yeah … somebody’d have some music playing, “Oh, hey, you know, I’ve got that album.” “Oh, yeah. Hey, where did you get that?” and that type of stuff.

So, and then as we all got to know one another, it became much more social. We had some parties.

MARK BRODIE: Really? That’s shocking.

AL MACIAS: Yeah, I know.

MARK BRODIE: In college? In the ’70s?

AL MACIAS: Yeah, I know, yeah. We were groundbreaking.

MARK BRODIE: OK, I need a second to wrap my head around that. So, Al, I want to ask you, because you reported this in the story, so these are for reference, these are some buildings that are kind of on the south side of the campus close to where Gammage Auditorium is. What is going in there? Like why were these torn down?

AL MACIAS: Well, speaking to Tim Smith, the facilities VP at ASU, he said basically, they looked at renovating these dorms, to bringing them up to modern standards, but the cost of renovating and upgrading just didn’t make sense, financial sense.

So, they’re they’re blading everything. Last time I was there was Friday, Best C was the only thing left standing. And then they’re going to replace them with new, modern dorms. I think they’re going to go five or six stories up. The old setup had about 800 beds, and the new one will have about 2,000 to 2,500.

MARK BRODIE: So a little more housing.

AL MACIAS: Yeah, and there will be retail space. The campus bookstore is moving into that space. So it won’t be just strictly dorms. So, that’s that.

MARK BRODIE: OK. So Tim, before we wrap up: This place obviously, as you said, shaped your college experience. Like what does it mean to you that it’s now sort of in pieces on the ground?

TIM AGNE: We were very lucky that, thanks to Al and thanks to Tim Smith, I got a little chunk. So, I have a weirdly shaped hunk of concrete that used to be part of one of the Irish Hall buildings, and I’ll cherish that.

I’ve talked to a lot of my friends, including my friend Alana who was in the story, and this dorm was home to us. It shaped us, and it’s the reason that we are still in touch, the reason that we have so many of the friends and know so many of the people that we know today.

So, it feels like kind of a big loss. Certainly, it wasn’t really a place that you could go back and visit. They were very fenced off. Even walking to Gammage, you can barely catch a glimpse of Irish C as you walk from the parking structure to the theater. But there was some comfort in knowing it was there.

And now, I go back to campus pretty frequently for football games and events like that. But it is a little sad to know that I’ll never get to see my dorm again.

MARK BRODIE: Yeah, interesting. All right, guys, we’ll have to leave it there. Tim Agne, Al Macias, thank you to both for the memories.

AL MACIAS: Absolutely.

TIM AGNE: Thanks, go Devils.

MARK BRODIE: Good morning. It’s the Show on KJZZ 91.5. I’m Mark Brodie. Coming up, an Arizona astrophysicist who uses Instagram to communicate big ideas.

ERIKA HAMDEN: I’m like such an optimist and an idealist, really, that I like think that anybody can learn anything if they have the right teacher and if they have the time and the space to kind of grapple with a subject. And so part of it is like I I think that someone that’s interested in space can learn general relativity even if they think they’re not a math person.

MARK BRODIE: We’ll hear from the recently named Guggenheim Fellow coming up.

But first, Medicaid cuts have been anticipated for months following the passage of the federal One Big Beautiful Bill Act. States like Arizona, where federal funds typically make up about 70% of all Medicaid spending, will need to make cuts somewhere to make up for that loss.

Here in Arizona, even the near future is uncertain, after Gov. Katie Hobbs vetoed the budget approved by the Republican state led state legislature in early May, both the House and Senate voted to recess. Home and community-based services for people with disabilities could very well be on the chopping block when lawmakers return to budget negotiations, in part because Medicaid is technically not required to cover it.

And if significant cuts aren’t made during this legislative session, there’s a very good chance they will be next year.

KJZZ’s Amy Silverman and Athena Ankrah spoke with several Arizonans with intellectual and developmental disabilities, as well as families of people with IDD concerned about what the changes will mean. The Show’s Amy Silverman starts this report.

[SOUND OF A MECHANICAL LIFT WHIRRING]

AMY SILVERMAN: Patricia Huber’s day begins with a lift. Each morning, her mom steps into Trisha’s suite — a living area, bedroom and bathroom, all decorated in hot pink — and helps her daughter prepare for the day.

CINDY MIDDLESTADT: You want to come in here? Come on in.

AMY SILVERMAN: On a recent spring afternoon at the family’s home in south Phoenix, Cindy Middlestadt walks through the typical morning routine while Trisha and her dad, Mark Huber, look on.

MARK HUBER: Do you think they’ll guess your favorite color?

CINDY MIDDLESTADT: Yeah. It’s hard to tell.

[LAUGHTER]

AMY SILVERMAN: A machine whirs across a track on the ceiling with a hook and straps to lift Trisha from bed and into her motorized wheelchair, or to a mesh shower chair.

CINDY MIDDLESTADT: This goes up and down and then you use a sling to attach her to the, bullhorn we call it. And then she just goes from here into her shower room, so I’ll show you here. So she’s got, that’s her bathing system. It rolls in and out.

AMY SILVERMAN: Trisha has cerebral palsy. Specifically, spastic quadriplegic cerebral palsy. Different kinds of cerebral palsy impact people in different ways, similar to autism and other developmental disabilities. For the lanky, short-haired 39-year-old, this means limited mobility and speech. Trisha depends on her mom and other caregivers to help her out of bed, into the shower, into fresh clothes, to eat. And that’s just the morning.

TRISHA HUBER: Uh, on me. On me. Help, 24, 4. 5, 7.

ATHENA ANKRAH: It’s harder for people who don’t know her well to understand what Trisha is saying. Out of habit, her mom repeats for her.

CINDY MIDDLESTADT: I need help 24 by 7.

ATHENA ANKRAH: Cindy and Mark know all about this. Since relocating to Arizona from Alaska several years ago, they’ve struggled to get services for their daughter. The litmus test for qualifying for home and community-based services under Medicaid is whether an individual would need to be institutionalized if they didn’t receive government assistance. Even though Trisha requires constant care, her family had to apply several times before Arizona’s system accepted her. The state’s long-term Medicaid services for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities include insurance, caregiving ranging from simple respite to skilled medical care, supplies like wheelchairs and that lift that gets Trisha out of bed, occupational, speech and physical therapies, and housing if one’s not living with family, which will likely be necessary for Trisha when her parents are gone.

AMY SILVERMAN: The red tape gets sticky. And because of low pay, the difficulty of the job, and recent challenges for the immigrant population, which comprises a large percentage of direct service providers, it’s almost impossible to find help. Aside from Cindy, recently Trisha has only had one caregiver. Just before this story aired, the family was assigned a part-time nurse. That took almost five years. Still, the Medicaid services Trisha does get offer a lifeline. And not just for Trisha. Cindy gestures to Mark.

CINDY MIDDLESTADT: We’re both aging. I’m 56, he’s 65. And, from a physical capacity, the like my body is shot. You don’t see it, but I’ve got torn shoulders, I’ve got pain injections. So all of that is going on, and I’m not sure how much I’ve got left to give. I can I mean, I can’t even have a surgery though right now because we don’t have adequate care, right? To recover for six to eight weeks of no lifting. Can’t do that.

AMY SILVERMAN: It’s not only the physical toll. The potential financial costs are high. Recently, Mark says, Trisha was hospitalized three times in two weeks.

MARK HUBER: And and they were three and four days stays, some five to seven, yeah.

ATHENA ANKRAH: Her parents have carefully preserved her equipment, bringing what they had from Alaska. But it’s impossible to ignore some current needs. Trisha’s wheelchair is overdue to be replaced. A new wheelchair will be about $20,000, Middlestat says. Trisha’s bathing system is 20 years old and needs to be replaced as well, likely at a cost of more than $100,000.

MARK HUBER: I mean, if she loses her Medicaid and Medicare, I mean, then it’s it’s all out of pocket. I mean, she’s not insurable at this point.

CINDY MIDDLESTADT: Yeah.

MARK HUBER: We’d be poor.

AMY SILVERMAN: It’s a simple concept, mandated by the U.S. Supreme Court in the landmark 1999 Olmstead v. L.C. case and celebrated by disability advocates. Instead of housing people with an intellectual and developmental disability in institutions, the government is tasked with finding ways to keep them in the community, in their own home or a small group home, providing them with a state-employed support coordinator who checks in periodically to ensure they are receiving the right services. Medicaid and the states foot the bill for those who qualify. The setup differs from state to state. Because of Arizona’s particular Medicaid waiver, if you qualify, you are immediately eligible for services. In most other states, there are long waiting lists for assistance.

ATHENA ANKRAH: Often, disability advocates observe that Arizona does, in effect, have waiting lists. The state and Medicaid just don’t refer to them as such. But even once approved, Arizonans with IDD often wait months to get Medicaid services, equipment and therapies, can’t find qualified medical professionals, and deal with a shortage of direct service providers. Arizona’s unusual setup is a poorly kept secret in the disability community. Families have relocated to the state for years because of the seeming abundance of services for members with IDD. Enrollment in Arizona’s Medicaid program has surged in recent years, in part because the state extended a pandemic-era federal program that paid parents to provide care for children under 18 with IDD who have been approved for services. In just five years, the number of members enrolled with the Division of Developmental Disabilities rose from just over 44,000 in 2019 to more than 58,000 by 2024, a more than 30% increase that has continued to balloon in the years since. In 2025, state lawmakers attempted to curb the runaway costs of the paid parent caregiver program. The community backlash was so intense, no one in the legislature has seemed willing to take it on this year.

JON MYERS: What is it, it is the community’s level of expectations.

AMY SILVERMAN: That’s executive director of the Arizona Developmental Disability Planning Council, Jon Myers.

JON MYERS: At least when it comes to disability services, we have the most generous system in the in the nation. And as a result, people have gotten accustomed to receiving a really broad array of services that they would not even come close to receiving in most other states. I feel like in Arizona, we have a system that is too ingrained to change.

AMY SILVERMAN: Asher Valencia is 11. He has both Down syndrome and autism and lives with his family in Phoenix. Asher’s mom, Brenna, says the early intervention services he received when he was very young were invaluable.

BRENNA VALENCIA: He is who he is because of those people, because of the whole community that has been involved with his care. He would not be at the level he’s at if it was just me and his dad.

AMY SILVERMAN: She says losing Asher’s Medicaid services would be devastating.

BRENNA VALENCIA: He would not be able to have all of the things that he needs and uses and is absolutely why he has been successful. I I can’t personally afford it.

AMY SILVERMAN: She says losing Asher’s Medicaid services would be devastating. Almost all of Arizona’s approximately 61,000 Division of Developmental Disabilities members live at home or in community settings, with about 1% in institutional care—a complete reversal of how people with disabilities have lived historically. It’s impossible to know just what will change, but highly likely that something will. When asked about the expected impact of HR 1 cuts, the state’s Medicaid agency, Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System, or AHCCCS, told KJZZ that the law will, quote, "impact all Arizonans and will likely create significant strain for individuals with developmental disabilities and their families." While AHCCCS is committed to renewing its HCBS waiver and continuing to serve this population, ultimately, decisions regarding whether and how to fund HCBS services are questions for Arizona’s policymakers, the agency wrote in an email to KJZZ. The state’s lead policymaker, Governor Katie Hobbs, said in a statement that she’s committed to protecting services, though changes may be necessary to ensure its survival. Quote, "Arizona has a strong tradition of providing cost-effective, community-based services to those with autism and other intellectual and developmental disabilities," Hobbs’ office said in an email to KJZZ. Quote, "The governor remains committed to serving this population, protecting access to these vital services, and we are continuing to work with the community members, clinicians, and our partners at CMS on common-sense reform that will ensure these services are sustainable for generations to come."

ATHENA ANKRAH: Lynn Wasley is 37. She lives in downtown Phoenix. She has autism and cerebral palsy, which in her case means she’s unable to work and often can’t care for herself. She depends on Medicaid services. Wasley hates the role that money plays in the lives of people like her.

LYNN WASLEY: If we can have a magic wand, I wish that this people with disabilities are not just money. And that’s it. Like, I wish we are people.

ATHENA ANKRAH: But she also understands the gravity of her situation, and others.

LYNN WASLEY: If the Medicaid went away, we would not have our survival.

ATHENA ANKRAH: Alex Rank has cerebral palsy. They use a wheelchair and require help with daily tasks related to mobility. Rank lives in Phoenix with their family. They graduated from Arizona State University in December and want to pursue a career in talk therapy, working with others with disabilities. That would be impossible without the services they get from Medicaid and the state of Arizona.

ALEX RANK: I will say the services I have gotten have been lackluster, but they’re still crucial, and I feel like if I had nothing, then there would be no point [LAUGHTER] of me trying to function in society.

ATHENA ANKRAH: Not long ago, Rank felt like there might be a real chance for them to move out of their family’s house and live independently. Without adequate support, they say, it’s only a dream. For KJZZ’s The Show, I’m Athena Ankrah.

AMY SILVERMAN: And I’m Amy Silverman.

MARK BRODIE: This story is part of Uninsured in America, a project led by Public Health Watch that focuses on life in America’s health coverage gaps and the impact of potential Medicaid cuts and other changes. To read a more detailed version of this reporting and a poem written by Alex Rank, visit kjzz.org.

MARK BRODIE: Good morning, it’s the Show on KJZZ 91.5, I’m Mark Brodie. And let’s return now to my conversation with Erika Hamden, an astrophysicist and director of the University of Arizona Space Institute. She was recently named a 2026 Guggenheim Fellow, and I asked what that means to her.

ERIKA HAMDEN: So first I like building things. Like, I discovered in college that there was a job where you could be like the person that builds the telescope. You don't have to just go to the telescope, you can actually like build it, build instruments for it, build cameras for it. And so that's how I primarily identify as like a telescope builder.

But in terms of, you know, what's happening out in space, I'm really interested in the process of formation. Like, I want to know how you go from just like hydrogen formed in the Big Bang to a galaxy, and then how you get hydrogen in a galaxy and how it forms a star. And ultimately I'm trying—I like really want to know like how did our galaxy get here? How did our star get here? How did we get here?

So a lot of my observations are of extremely faint things, because I'm not looking at stars or galaxies, I'm looking at hydrogen out in space.

MARK BRODIE: That might become something at some point.

ERIKA HAMDEN: Yes, that will one day — if it works really hard — will become a star.

MARK BRODIE: You're asking the big questions here.

ERIKA HAMDEN: Yeah. Yeah.

MARK BRODIE: What's that like on a day-to-day basis?

ERIKA HAMDEN: It's really fun. It's also frustrating. In some sense, it gives me like a lot of perspective because these things are so huge and so far away. And also, it's like the formation of things is inevitable. So, for me, it like takes all the pressure off.

Like, I'll be thinking about galaxies and then feel like, OK, well, my day isn't really that bad. Like, it's fine. Stars will still form even if I think that there's something bad happening on Earth. Like, it just puts into perspective how little we are. And so, so on a day-to-day basis, I think it's good.

It's also, for me, sometimes it's stressful like trying to do something new, and like, is this the right thing? And it's actually very similar to making art, I think, in that you have to really have the courage of your convictions to say like, "No, I want to do it this way." And then see what people think.

MARK BRODIE: Are you somebody who like growing up as a kid, did you know that you wanted to do something like this?

ERIKA HAMDEN: Oh, yeah. I mean, I've been into space since I learned that space was a thing.

MARK BRODIE: OK. So, probably pretty young then, right?

ERIKA HAMDEN: Yeah, I think I was like six or seven. And ... I remember learning about the Big Bang. I learned about — I read in our encyclopedia, because it was the '80s and it was like a physical object.

MARK BRODIE: Yeah. Of course.

ERIKA HAMDEN: I remember looking in the back of the encyclopedia, and there was a map of the known universe, and I can like still picture how the map looked in my head.

MARK BRODIE: Wow.

ERIKA HAMDEN: And I was just like, "This is incredible. This is the best thing that has ever existed." And then I was always trying to talk someone into taking me to the library so I could take out books about space. I like read every book about space in the library.

I learned how to program the VCR so I could record PBS shows about space and then like watch them later. And yeah, I was just super into it. And now when I run into people from high school, they're like, "Oh my God, you're doing what you always wanted." It's really sweet, actually.

MARK BRODIE: Well, I wonder if that helps explain why you seem so passionate about making Instagram videos and trying to explain what you do to people who are not scientists. That you as a 6- or 7-year-old was really getting into it, and I wonder if that maybe says something about why you're doing that now.

ERIKA HAMDEN: Oh yeah. I mean, my 6-year-old self would have loved my 43-year-old self's videos.

Um, yeah, I mean, I—partly I do it because I think space is so—I still think it is the best thing I've ever seen, and I still have that sense of wonder, and I just like love it so much. I like want to go up to people on the street and be like, "Oh my God, do you know we live in a galaxy? Like, come on."

And I also do think that scientists have a—have a duty to talk about their work to the public and that some of the societal problems that we have now, I think, are because scientists have really retreated from public life. Sometimes because they've been forced to, but also I think it's just a feeling of like, "Oh, well, I'm just going to do my work and what everyone else does is up to them."

But I think that that's not how science should be. Science should be like in the public, with people, talking about the process.

I think one of the things I noticed during COVID was people were really upset when guidelines changed. And in science, you get new information, you change your theory, you change your view, you adapt. And I think people think that science is like a checklist of items that we know, which are the truth — I'm making like air quotes.

But in fact, it's like science is this iterative process to get closer and closer to something, but you're never really going to have the exact perfect model of the universe. So, I like to talk about the process a little bit or like what we used to think and what we think now to kind of show how it is supposed to change.

And then I also think — I'm like such an optimist and an idealist, really — that I like think that anybody can learn anything if they have the right teacher and if they have the time and the space to kind of grapple with a subject. And so part of it is like, I think that someone that's interested in space can learn general relativity even if they think they're not a math person. So part of it is like trying to live up to that ideal.

MARK BRODIE: Do you find that partly what you're trying to do is sort of help science — I don't want to say like reclaim prestige. But as you referenced, there's been so much questioning of science and scientists, especially since the pandemic. Do you see your videos as maybe a way of trying to demystify what scientists are doing and help people sort of realize, "Hey, no, this is how science works. Like things change, then we learn things, we change things."

ERIKA HAMDEN: Yeah. And, yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. And also that scientists are also people.

That it's not some like nefarious group. It's just like a bunch of nerds working on things. And I think it's actually incredibly powerful to say like, "Oh no, I know these things." So, that's something that I want people to feel like they can assess.

Like in 2025, I had a sequence of videos that was "In 2025, we're thinking critically," and it was about like different types of critical thinking or like how to recognize fallacies. And a lot of it is just like paying attention and thinking about incentives of the people that you're hearing something from and trying to be a little more critical and skeptical in a like, in a positive way, not in a "Earth is flat" way.

MARK BRODIE: Am I right that you would like to do more than like look at space through a telescope? You actually want to go up there?

ERIKA HAMDEN: Go to space and look at it with my eyes.

MARK BRODIE: Yeah. You really want to do that?

ERIKA HAMDEN: Yes. Yeah, I've wanted to be an astronaut since I was also a little kid when I learned about space and then I learned that there was a group of people who got to go there. I was like, "That's got to be me."

MARK BRODIE: OK.

ERIKA HAMDEN: There's always been a little bit of a tension, actually, for me, because um, if I were just going to follow the number-one route, I would have like gone to a military academy, like been a test pilot, applied like that way, which is still a route that a lot of people do. And I remember talking to my parents about going to a military academy, and two of my mom's brothers had gone to the Naval Academy.

And my parents were like, "You have to go to the best school you can get into, and if that is a military academy then great, go. But we're not going to let you only apply to those places." So then, in the end I went to MIT, actually, because I also thought like, well, MIT makes a lot of astronauts, so that's a good alternative.

MARK BRODIE: And a pretty good school.

ERIKA HAMDEN: A pretty good school. And I was like really into like, obviously, a lot of technical things. So, I was like, okay, go to MIT, do aerospace engineering, learn how to build rockets, and then become an astronaut. Like, this is a great and detailed plan.

And then, of course, I get to MIT, and I dropped out in the first semester, actually, because I like really hated it, and I had a lot of like growing to do, But I dropped out. I worked at a Borders, took classes at the local college where my dad actually taught physics, and then I reapplied to college and I ended up going to Harvard.

MARK BRODIE: Also a pretty decent school.

ERIKA HAMDEN: Also pretty good, down the street. And I was like, well, I can't major in engineering here because if I wanted to do engineering, I really should have stayed at MIT. But Harvard had and has a fantastic astronomy department, just like the science. And so that's what I ended up doing.

And I had thought like, a lot of people that make it very far in the application process, they like spend a winter in Antarctica, they do these very extreme things to kind of show that they can handle the environment.

But for me, I had felt like, OK, well, what I actually want is to do this work really at a high level. And if I go to Antarctica for a year, I'd be working on someone else's project, and I don't want to do that. I want to want to work on my project.

MARK BRODIE: Ah, OK.

ERIKA HAMDEN: So I think when I look back on it, I'm like, oh, there's stuff I could have done differently that maybe would have made me a better astronaut candidate, but I'm also like, well, I wouldn't change it, probably.

But I would love to go — like I was so thrilled to watch the Artemis II mission, and I had the YouTube channel on like the entire time. And the day that they did the flyby of the moon, I was like looking at it the whole day and like watching the moon get bigger in the field of view.

And around like 3:00 p.m. that day, I was like, "Man, I haven't gotten anything done today. Like, what have I been doing?" And I realized, oh, I've just been watching the mission.

MARK BRODIE: Wow. Yeah. That’s astrophysicist Erika Hamden, Director of the University of Arizona Space Institute and a member of the 2026 class of Guggenheim fellows; more of our conversation in just a moment.

MARK BRODIE: Good morning, it’s the Show on KJZZ 91.5, I’m Mark Brodie. And let’s return now to my conversation with Erika Hamden, an astrophysicist and Director of the University of Arizona Space Institute. She was recently named a 2026 Guggenheim Fellow and I asked what that means to her.

ERIKA HAMDEN: It's a huge honor. It was honestly a surprise because I apply for stuff all the time. Like, I'm writing proposals, I'm like, "Oh, I'll just apply to this thing, like, see what happens." And most of the time it doesn't work out.

And I've gotten very used to getting the emails that is like, "Oh, sorry, we went with someone else." And I'm like, "Oh, well."

And so I saw the email from them, and I was like, another rejection. And I click on it and it's like, "Oh, congratulations."

MARK BRODIE: Oh man.

ERIKA HAMDEN: So, that was cool because I was like, "Oh, wow." Um, and actually, that was also funny because that application—as I get older, I think this is true for everyone, you just become like more of yourself.

And so when I was writing the proposal or whatever the document is, I was like, I'm just going to be my most deranged self and write this. Like, the opening sentence is that I'm a persistence predator of my dreams because every day I wake up and I'm like, just going to get a little closer, a little closer. I like, I'm relentless.

And then later, I went back to read it and I was like, "Should I edit that? Should I like soften this?" Because the whole thing is like that. And I was like, "No, I'm just going to be — this is like maximally me. I'm just going to send it to them and they can like it or they can not like it."

MARK BRODIE: Seems they liked it.

ERIKA HAMDEN: So, they liked it, yeah. So, which I've learned a terrible lesson now, which is like I'm just going to be like my most [laughs] crazy self in in everything that I write. But it's really—it's such an honor because the Guggenheim has been around for so long. It's a hu- we're the 101st class of fellows. They provide such great support and they have such a strong emphasis on the arts.

But it's unique in that a lot of fellowships are like just for artists or just for a scientist and this is actually for both. It's like people who are doing creative work in many different fields. So, there's like people who are working in the humanities, all different types of art, and then science. And it's just a very, it feels very like forward-thinking and open.

MARK BRODIE: Do you see what you do in some ways as art? And this is the second time in this conversation you've mentioned something related to art. And I'm just thinking about, you know, going through, you know, buildings at UA that have people who do what you do and there are photos all over the walls of the beautiful images from Hubble or Webb or other telescopes. I wonder if if in some way you see what you do as art.

ERIKA HAMDEN: So my view of art like for myself is that it is the creative act that you are compelled to do. And maybe you don't even really know why. Like, people sometimes ask why I do what I do, I'm like, "I don't know, the folds in my brain, that's what they want. I like just have to do what they want."

And I think science is actually a very creative field. Like, you have to imagine something that you don't already know. You have to come up with something new, you have to like figure out how to get your brain around it.

But then a lot of other parts of the of like academia are very creative. Like, I write all these proposals and to me, writing a proposal for a new telescope concept is like an act of creation. I'm imagining like the way that things could be and if we had this telescope, we could look at this, we could answer this question, we can do these cool things.

And then you write these proposals and you send them out into the world to be criticized by the review panel, and you don't know how it will be received. And the only thing that you can do is make something that to you feels like the best possible version and then like how it is received is dependent on everybody else.

And so for a lot of my work, I feel like I'm creating this piece of art and like sending it out. And I don't know if the critics will like it, but I have to do it.

MARK BRODIE: Yeah. Well, that sounds very much like a what I would imagine an artist feels as they finish a piece of their work and show it to a bunch of strangers.

ERIKA HAMDEN: And it's like, "This is what's in my heart." But what's in my heart is like telescopes and and figures, instead of like a painting. But I actually do think it comes from the same kind of impulse.

MARK BRODIE: So how will this this honor help you? How will it impact your work? Will it allow you to do things that that you've maybe wanted to do for a for a while?

ERIKA HAMDEN: So it will help me do things I've wanted to do for a while. Like one of the projects that I described was, uh, the sensors that I'm working on that's like the light sensor at the heart of the telescope. And I've always been interested in that as a technology because as sensors improve over history, our understanding of the universe improves, and that like the new technology applied to astronomy gives you incredible discoveries.

And so, I'm like, "Oh, I want to make new sensors because then 10 years from now, we're going to find out some crazy thing about the universe."

So it's the project I described was like developing sensors and I'm doing that on campus. But the the fellowship also gives you funding that is kind of not directed. And I and I want to use that to think about I like have a pretty clear idea of what I want to do the next couple of years, maybe five years, but I want to think longer and like what can I do with that? How can I use the space that it kind of buys me to like think about the the long-term plan?

MARK BRODIE: Well, that's interesting.

ERIKA HAMDEN: Yeah.

MARK BRODIE: All right. That is Erika Hamden, the director of the Space Institute at the University of Arizona, an astrophysicist there as well and a recent recipient of a Guggenheim Fellowship. Erika, thanks so much for the conversation. I appreciate it.

ERIKA HAMDEN: Thank you for having me.

MARK BRODIE: Thanks for listening to the Show’s podcast. The Show is produced by Sativa Peterson, Nick Sanchez, Amber Victoria Singer, Athena Ankrah, and Ayana Hamilton. The Show was created by Jon Hoban. Our executive producer is Amy Silverman. You can find more of the Show and sign up for our newsletter at theshow.kjzz.org. You can also find us on Instagram @kjzztheshow.

KJZZ's The Show transcripts are created on deadline. This text is edited for length and clarity, and may not be in its final form. The authoritative record of KJZZ's programming is the audio record.

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