The Show for July 1, 2026: MCSO oversight, Phoenix Afrobeat Orchestra and more

The Maricopa County Sheriff wants a judge to get rid of the monitor that has overseen his agency for more than a decade. But a new report shows they’ve only gotten worse when it comes to racially profiling Latinos. Plus, we’ll hear our latest Tiny Desert Concert with Phoenix Afrobeat Orchestra.

Transcript

UNDERWRITER: KJZZ’s original production, The Show, is supported by Banner Health, Arizona’s largest nonprofit health care system. Last year, Banner reinvested more than $1.1 billion in community health and charity care. Banner Health, nonprofit for Arizona. bannerhealth.com/nonprofitforaz

LAUREN GILGER: Hi, I’m Lauren Gilger, co-host of The Show, an original production from KJZZ. Every weekday, we bring you the latest news and culture from across the state. You can find much more at theshow.kjzz.org. Here’s today’s episode.

LAUREN GILGER: Good morning and welcome to The Show here on KJZZ 91.5 in Phoenix. I’m Lauren Gilger. Coming up, Democrats here and around the country are grappling with the success of Democratic Socialist candidates and our latest Tiny Desert Concert with the 13-member strong Phoenix Afrobeat Orchestra.

But first, Arizona Senator Ruben Gallego is under federal investigation for suspected campaign finance violations. That’s the scoop just out from our first guest this morning, Axios’ White House Correspondent Marc Caputo. The Democrat has been on the defense since headlines surfaced in Politico last week revealing that he used campaign funds to pay for trips with his wife and kids to places like Disneyland, Miami, Chicago, the Super Bowl, and more. He even tapped his PAC for $18,000 in reimbursements for childcare. He’s calling it a partisan attack, but could this investigation shatter his future political ambitions? I’m joined by Caputo now to talk more about it. Good morning, Marc. Thanks for coming on the show.

MARC CAPUTO: Well, thanks for having me. How are you?

LAUREN GILGER: I'm good. Thank you for coming on. So what do we know about the source of this investigation?

MARC CAPUTO: Well, we only know what our sources are telling us, which is that this was an alleged whistleblower. Now, whether that's true or not and who the whistleblower is and what their true motives are, we're not clear. What we're certain of is that there is a federal investigation into Gallego over his use of campaign finance or campaign funds for allegedly personal use. I'm saying allegedly because he hasn't even been charged yet, not sure if he's going to be charged, and even if he is indicted, there has to be a trial.

LAUREN GILGER: Right, right. So Gallego is saying this investigation is a result of a weaponized DOJ basically. Tell us more about what his office is saying here.

MARC CAPUTO: Well, just that, and in fairness to the senator, there are numerous cases of lawmakers who have rung up similar expenses. Now, the degree to which his is an outlier is another matter. However, there are lawmakers who have routinely flown to various exotic locales with family, they've even paid for childcare. One of the arguments that Gallego has made is that many of these are donor trips and donor visits and they happen to take place at exotic locales.

There's that old saying or story probably apocryphal about the bank robber Willie Sutton when asked why does he rob banks, he says, "Well, that's where the money is." In this case, when Gallego says, "Well, the reason I'm going to these lovely places is donors want to go to the lovely places. They're not in these bad places. And yeah, I'm taking my family along." So we'll see how this shakes out. There's a lot of, there are a lot of unanswered questions that we'll see if they get asked, posed properly, and then answered.

LAUREN GILGER: Right, right. This is sort of one investigation closed, another opened for the senator. The Senate Ethics Committee just closed its investigation into Gallego over allegations of sexual misconduct and campaign finance violations. Tell us more about that.

MARC CAPUTO: Well, his connections to the disgraced lawmaker in California. Thank you. has saddled Gallego for quite some time.

LAUREN GILGER: Right, this is related to former Congressman Eric Swalwell, who was a good friend of Gallego's.

MARC CAPUTO: Correct. They were buddies. They famously were riding Camelback together in the Middle East and things like that, albeit they were with their spouses at the time. So this has just been sort of an ongoing problem for Gallego over time. And the fact is, is he is, he has fashioned himself as more of a national figure. He does cut a good figure for Democrats to rally around. He's a Hispanic lawmaker, he's from a swing state, he has a military background. These are a lot of boxes that a candidate wants to check if they're thinking of running for president.

And as a result, Republicans see this, they understand a target when they see one, and they're reacting accordingly. I'm not saying that the investigation into him is partisan, I'm not saying it's not, but it is a fact that he is a target of a lot of political attacks because of where he comes from and who he is.

LAUREN GILGER: Right, and it does seem as if Gallego may have big political ambitions, lots of chatter as you're getting out there about him potentially running for president in 2028. Does that seem likely to you?

MARC CAPUTO: Oh, one of the things I don't do having covered a number of presidential elections is forecast that. But I think it's beyond a doubt, and it's fair to speculate, that every small-town mayor looks in the mirror and thinks of himself like, "Well, what if I was in the White House?" There are 100 senators and they're like little kings that wander around in the Capitol. All of them certainly entertain it at one point or another.

And a guy like Gallego owing to his demographic and biographical history, certainly would look in that mirror and say, "Well, yeah, I have a better shot than most." And he's probably right. That doesn't mean he's going to do it, doesn't mean he's going to get elected, but he would be foolish not to be looking at it, and he clearly is. One of the people he's hired to help message for him is Andrew Bates, who was one of the top attack dogs in the White House for Joe Biden and on the campaign trail for the Biden campaign.

LAUREN GILGER: Right, hired for crisis communications essentially.

MARC CAPUTO: Correct. So he does have a guy who understands intimately how to run for president, how to message it, and once you're president, how to make those arguments effectively in the White House. Bates is very good at that. So that hire is not a coincidence.

LAUREN GILGER: Very interesting. Last minute here for you, Marc. He's not certainly, as you alluded to earlier, the first politician to use campaign funds in this way to have investigations or accusations about campaign finance violations. How much do voters care about stories like this and headlines like this?

MARC CAPUTO: That's a good question. There's a positive response bias that you often see from voters that do you care about corruption, politicians misusing money, they're like, "Yeah, I care." But ultimately, so many do it and they still get elected that you do wonder how serious people are about it.

There is a general sense in the public, I think it's safe to say, that a lot of politicians are corrupt. And the advantage for corrupt politicians, not saying Gallego is or he isn't, is that these investigations just start to kind of blur into like, well, everyone does it, right? It's like dispatches from Imperial Rome or from Sodom and Gomorrah or, choose your decadent city to analyze.

Leading into this interview, they were just talking about the president's wealth might have soared to$ 2.2 billion. So voters are going to see something like that, like, "Oh yeah, this guy spent $37,000 over a number of years moving his family around to these different exotic locales to do fundraisers. How much more corrupt or less corrupt is that?"

LAUREN GILGER: Right. We'll have to leave it there, but point made. Axios' White House Correspondent joining us, Marc Caputo. Thank you so much, Marc, for coming on. Appreciate your reporting here.

MARC CAPUTO: Thank you much.

LAUREN GILGER: Democratic socialists are having a moment in American politics right now. Young, far-left candidates have been racking up wins in Democratic primaries across the country, sometimes ousting incumbents who have served for decades. Just last night in Denver, Democratic Socialist Melat Kiros defeated Congresswoman Diana DeGette, who had served in the House for 29 years. Now, Arizona congressional Democratic candidate Marlene Galán-Woods, a former Republican, is choosing sides. She was one of 13 Democrats who signed on to the centrist Promise to America initiative, according to the Washington Post. They’re standing by principles like strong borders, capitalism, and pride in the United States. And they’re standing against things like democratic socialism. It’s a sign of the broader debate going on within the Democratic Party right now. And here to shed some light on what that looks like is Democratic strategist Stacy Pearson with Lumen Strategies. Good morning, Stacy. Thanks for coming in.

LAUREN GILGER: Good morning, Stacy. Thanks for coming in.

STACY PEARSON: Good morning. Thanks for having me.

LAUREN GILGER: OK, so what do you make of this move by Marlene Galán-Woods declaring herself a centrist in this very important primary race?

STACY PEARSON: What a weird move as the establishment chosen candidate. I mean, the DCCC has endorsed Marlene Galán-Woods. That’s the definition of establishment. The goal of that organization should be to build a bigger tent, to let folks from all shades of blue inside, be it centrist, be it light blue, be it a little periwinkle, maybe some purple. We really need to be building a bigger tent, not ostracizing folks that want basic things like universal healthcare, Medicare for All.

LAUREN GILGER: So this us versus them thing, you’re, OK. How much do you think this has to do, this whole broader picture, with the Democratic Socialists of America having success right now in various primaries, what does this have to do with in terms of politics? Is it about their far-left policies?

STACY PEARSON: It’s not as, I think it’s a combination and it’s going to be that Lee Iacocca, 50% of this is working, I just don’t know which 50%.

But it is it’s also a refer — yes, there are social policies that Americans want to see move forward. Healthcare being one, affordable housing being another, better transportation, high-speed train. I mean, just basic infrastructure stuff that is, in fact, socialist. We all pay taxes, everybody gets to get access to it. I mean, it’s that simple.

But beyond that, it’s a referendum on some of these politicians that have simply overstayed their welcome. A 30-year congresswoman or congressman, it’s time to look for other employment or perhaps retire. And so I think we’re seeing younger candidates that are flipping tables and doing running campaigns with new media in ways that the incumbents don’t see coming.

LAUREN GILGER: So you think this is about age?

STACY PEARSON: Both, yeah, it is age. It’s age, it’s technology, it’s, I don’t want IQ tests, I don’t want cognitive tests like the president keeps taking every 45 minutes. But I do want. I do want elected officials to be able to download an app on their phone or have used AI. I mean, we really we really are seeing kind of a coming of age with young either Gen X or Gen Z candidates.

LAUREN GILGER: That’s really interesting. So what counts as youth here if we’re talking about the youth, the young vote?

STACY PEARSON: This Denver election last night is 29 years old. The woman who won is 29. We see it in Arizona, we see Congresswoman Yassamin Ansari, who was the youngest member of Congress, I think until this this election. And she’s 35.

LAUREN GILGER: Yeah. So what about the other side of the coin here? Republicans, are they rejoicing here? Is this easy for them to fight against?

STACY PEARSON: So they think it is, right? I had a neighbor couple cycles ago, it was 2020, put up a 100% American, 0% socialist sign in his yard on our public street, where we have an alley, where we have socialist trash pickup. I’ll admit I didn’t behave particularly well. I went nuts with banners on my own house. That was, I responded in kind.

But when politicians are arguing against socialism, they’re arguing against well-funded public education and good universities and public transportation and affordable housing. The Democrats need to get a hold of the word socialist like we did with abortion, and we stopped using weird pitter-patter words like reproductive freedom and reproductive rights. No, we’re really talking about a woman’s right to have an abortion when she needs one, period. And so I think we need to get a hold of the word again and remind people what it really means.

LAUREN GILGER: So you don’t think the word socialist at this point will scare off those kind of centrist Democrats, the ones who might have voted for Trump or for a Republican in the past?

STACY PEARSON: I think we need to remind people what that word means. Right now, it’s being used against us, just like the word abortion was, and we ran from it, and it is, we’ve seen the error of that way and should get back in the game on this word.

Socialism is, we live in a country where in a city, particularly big cities, where socialism means the trash got picked up on time today.

LAUREN GILGER: That’s really interesting. So these wins are often happening despite major spending by outside groups, by mainstream Democratic groups. You’re saying that money should be going to a different place? Should it be going to some of these younger candidates?

STACY PEARSON: Absolutely. I mean, we, we have so much unfinished business. You look at DACA, we look at our immigration policies. We left those DACA recipients hanging after the Obama administration in a way that is mind-boggling. We never actually finished that work. We never got through with an immigration reform that gave them a path to citizenship.

Those are the projects that we have to get back in there and get done. And that, this generation, we see it in polling every day, is the most frustrated with the promises that we as Democrats haven’t kept.

LAUREN GILGER: Last 30 seconds here, Stacy. If you’re looking at the moment that this is happening in for the Democratic Party, who’s in the White House and the potentially very successful election they’re looking at here coming up in November, this primary, how much is this about timing?

STACY PEARSON: Oh, it is a lot about timing. This gives us an opportunity, Democrats an opportunity to take one of two roads. Either we make a bigger tent, we talk about policy, we talk about finishing, fulfilling promises we’ve made; or we don’t, or we keep signing on to these letters that now chastise a woman who’s won an election, who’s 29 years old, who’s getting in the fight.

LAUREN GILGER: All right. Stacy Pearson with Lumen Strategies joining us. Stacy, thanks as always. Appreciate it.

STACY PEARSON: Thank you.

LAUREN GILGER: Good morning, it is The Show here on KJZZ 91.5. I’m Lauren Gilger. Coming up, our biggest Tiny Desert Concert yet with the 13 members of the Phoenix Afrobeat Orchestra.

But first, for more than a decade, a court-appointed monitor has been making sure that the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office doesn’t discriminate against Latinos. In a landmark 2013 decision, the court found former Sheriff Joe Arpaio and his agency had systematically racially profiled Latinos at traffic stops and beyond, and ordered the agency to make reforms under the watch of monitor Robert Warshaw. But since Sheriff Jerry Sheridan took over the office last year, the agency and an array of Republican county officials have been mounting an effort to get rid of him. It all culminated last week in court where an attorney for the county argued that the monitor has been successful, MCSO has changed, and the judge should terminate oversight of the agency. But the plaintiffs say the opposite is true, and the most recent report from the monitor backs them up. It found a disturbing pattern of violations and ethical breaches that call into question the integrity of the agency and its leaders. Raul Piña is a member of the Community Advisory Board appointed to oversee MCSO’s compliance with the court order. He came into our studios to talk more about it, and I asked him about the central argument the county made last week in court that no one can identify any instance of racial profiling or immigration enforcement in over a decade. Does he agree with that statement?

RAUL PIÑA: I don't agree with that because there are indicators of bias. There are indicators of interactions that are questionable. There are data points that are misrepresented. The data collection system is constantly under negotiations because they want to alter the way it's collected, the way it's interpreted.

So it's impossible to say we have had zero incidents of racial profiling in the last 10 years. Otherwise, we would not still be here. The data is not consistent to support that.

LAUREN GILGER: And a recent report from the federal monitor detailed where he sees MCSO still falling short, even going back in ways. And this was I think significant because up until that most recent report from the monitor, even folks like you had said that MCSO is pretty close here, like they've done a lot, they need to sustain these changes going forward, a lot of these big issues are resolved at this point. I think you told me at one point they're closer than ever.

Do you think that's not the case anymore given this most recent report from the monitor?

RAUL PIÑA: I think the most recent report was it was scathing, it was alarming in some ways, and it shows a commitment to operate with impunity, to operate with few guardrails, if you will, and that's a huge concern. It's backsliding in terms of data, in terms of daily operations, in terms of the attitude towards the reform process.

LAUREN GILGER: The report said, and I'm quoting as well, highlighted "a disturbing pattern of behaviors, policy violations, court violations, statutory violations, and a host of ethical breaches that call into question the integrity of the agency as well as its senior leaders."

What do you think the monitor is getting at there? Is this about the new leadership, the new sheriff?

RAUL PIÑA: I think it addresses the character of the organization, the character of the executive leadership. There are good people within the agency that want to move us towards reform, but if you have an executive leadership team, you have layers of leadership that are not committed to reform process, that are not committed to constitutional policing, it's going to cause the agency to backslide in terms of the reform process. It's inevitable.

LAUREN GILGER: And you think that's what we're seeing happen here?

RAUL PIÑA: I believe that's happening, and there are multiple indicators that there's just not a commitment to the reform process. There seems to be a longing for the good old days of the Arpaio era, and that is disturbing.

LAUREN GILGER: Can you give us some specifics here because I know these reports from the monitor and the kind of requirements that MCSO is supposed to meet are very specific in terms of like the number of minutes and seconds that a deputy will spend, for example, with someone at a traffic stop.

RAUL PIÑA: Well, the data has been consistent over time. The stops for Latino drivers, brown and Black people, are longer. The arrest rate for brown and Black people is higher at those traffic stops. So that has been consistent over time, and that continues to be the case.

A recent concern we have discovered is that there was over 100 traffic stop cases that were not submitted in a report to the monitor, and MCSO had to file an amendment. One of the concerns that we have is that we're typically operating one quarter behind. So that report will not come out for another two and a half months, if you will, but there are those concerns that all of the information is not being brought forward in a timely manner.

LAUREN GILGER: So this effort to end oversight by the monitor has been kind of growing momentum over the last year or so. We've talked to you about it on The Show before, we've talked to the sheriff about it on the show before. And it's been supported by many GOP politicians as well, leaders on the Board of Supervisors and other offices in the county.

But former Democratic Sheriff Paul Penzone, the person who was elected and ousted Joe Arpaio from office, also left office early, and he was a Democrat. And he cited the monitor and how he thought that this ongoing oversight made it hard for him to do what he wanted there. So I wonder, do you think this is political?

RAUL PIÑA: It's political because it makes sense for politicians to pursue votes on Melendres. It's easy to say, we're approaching a quarter of a billion dollars in cost and not acknowledging that some of those funds were misappropriated, some of those funds were misattributed, if you will. So sure, it's a political football.

However, the GOP has used that to their advantage. There are entire political campaigns being launched and donations raised by saying that the monitor needs to leave Maricopa County. That's easy to say, but what about the people who are impacted the most by a history of racial profiling, police malpractice in Maricopa County? What about those folks?

LAUREN GILGER: Let's talk about those folks to end with here because the judge is deciding now whether or not this oversight should end, there could be kind of an in-between solution as well.

If he were to allow Maricopa County Sheriff's Office to continue forward without this court oversight, what do you think that would say to the Latino community that prompted this case to begin with?

RAUL PIÑA: If the monitoring ends tomorrow and there is no monitor, there is no guardrails established by the court, I think that would be a very dangerous and scary time for the Latino community in Maricopa County. We would go back to the days of Joe Arpaio. There would be collaboration with the current administration to pursue people.

LAUREN GILGER: You mean like a 287(g) agreement?

RAUL PIÑA: Absolutely.

LAUREN GILGER: Which they're barred from doing right now because of this court order.

RAUL PIÑA: Right. Without the guardrails set by the court and by Melendres, we would be back to 287(g)s, perhaps raids and so forth.

Politically, there's an incentive to do those things. It's a popular thing to do is to pursue brown people who are working construction jobs and so forth. It makes sense to do that politically to raise money on those images on television and those sound bites on talk radio.

So it's scary for vehicle operators in Maricopa County, but it's more scary for the most impacted people, the DACA recipients, the mixed-status family. It's a scary time if, in fact, Melendres is lifted.

LAUREN GILGER: So do you think that'll happen? The judge seemed skeptical of lifting all oversight over MCSO, but maybe supportive of doing some of it, letting them out of some of these provisions that they've been in compliance on for years, but not everything?

RAUL PIÑA: I think the judge is was looking for a way to give some relief to MCSO. I mean, still they have the burden of proof to show they're not racially profiling people in Maricopa County, but he seemed to be willing to give them some relief.

My concern is they will not take advantage of that. The character of the organization is such that they will find a way to not do the right thing, if you will.

LAUREN GILGER: OK, we'll leave it there. Raul Piña with his take on this member of the Community Advisory Board, which oversees the MCSO court order compliance. Raul, thank you very much for coming back on the show. Appreciate it very much.

RAUL PIÑA: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

LAUREN GILGER: We also reached out to the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office and asked Sheriff Jerry Sheridan to come on The Show to talk about this. They sent us a statement saying, "Sheriff Sheridan believes that MCSO is in compliance with the court order and is currently awaiting the court's ruling on the matter."

LAUREN GILGER: Good morning, it’s The Show here on KJZZ 91.5. I’m Lauren Gilger. The longtime leader of a non-profit independent Tucson movie theater is stepping aside. Kind of. Peggy Johnson has been the executive director of The Loft Cinema since 2002. The locally owned theater hired a new head recently and after 24 years, Johnson will be transitioning to executive director emeritus over the next few months. The Loft specializes in independent and foreign films and documentaries, but also shows new releases and hosts special events. It’s been around since 1972. Peggy Johnson spoke with my co-host Mark Brodie about her time leading The Loft Cinema and what she plans to do next and they started with what got her interested in working there and being in charge of it in the first place.

PEGGY JOHNSON: Well, it was — we saw the for-sale sign go up under the marquee, and a few of us who were really, you know, passionate about the Loft, felt that it was an important part of Tucson’s cultural personality. And if it went away at that point, we would have had nothing but corporate chain multiplexes basically. And that just didn’t seem like it was a good idea for Tucson.

We’d been really spoiled by having the Loft for so long and we felt like it was a really important part of the reason we lived in Tucson, so we really wanted to maintain that presence. I mean, it had been here 30 years at that point, and we felt like it was important.

My husband and I even talked about maybe moving if we weren’t able to figure out a way to save the Loft because living — like I said, living in a city with just chain theaters that show the big Hollywood stuff just wasn’t going to, you know, be enough of a — we didn’t want that. So, the fact that we were able to save it really meant a lot to a lot of people, and meant a lot to me personally because I like film, and I didn’t want to just have the big blockbuster stuff available to me, so.

MARK BRODIE: Well, so given how personal this is to you, what have these last nearly two and a half decades been like, going to work there and running this operation every day?

PEGGY JOHNSON: It’s been such an honor, such a privilege — and so hard. So, you know, the — it’s been it’s been incredible. I’ve learned so much, and it’s been just a really an honor. The main communication I get from patrons is just gratitude. People are just so thankful ... and grateful that the Loft is there, and I just it’s just daily.

MARK BRODIE: And so, what led to your decision to hang it up?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Well, I’m tired, and we just went through a two-year construction project that really was grueling and took a lot out of me. And I think as that project went on, it became obvious that it was time for somebody else to take the reins. I’m tired. I mean, I’ve been doing this a long time, and before my 24-year career here, I had a 24-year career in public broadcasting in Tucson. So, you know, I’ve worked every day for 50 years, and I’m ready to work less hard.

MARK BRODIE: Sure, but it sounds like you’re not necessarily stepping away entirely, what will you still be doing at the Loft?

PEGGY JOHNSON: Well, my title will be executive director emeritus, and I’m going to be involved with programming, involved with the film festival. I belong to a an international group, the International Confederation of Art Houses, which represents about 5,000 screens in 28 countries. And I’m the first American that’s ever been on their board. They were founded in 1955 to try to keep, you know, make sure that the art houses in in Europe primarily continued to exist so that they weren’t just dominated by Hollywood, you know, films, which is a global problem.

And so, I’ve been on that board for a long time and I’m vice president, so I’ll be doing that work. I’ll be also, you know, going to international festivals, hopefully taking some of our patrons with me on occasion to other festivals, and working on our festival. And then, I’ll still be doing some I’m sure some fundraising and advocating for the Loft. And the main thing I’m going to do is be at the Loft watching movies more often.

MARK BRODIE: Well, I have to say, and please forgive me, it sounds like you are now getting to do all the fun stuff without maybe the not-so-fun stuff.

PEGGY JOHNSON: That’s the key, that’s the key. Yes. ... I don’t want to manage people and worry about budgets, but I want to do the fun stuff and really interacting with patrons, that’s my No. 1 favorite thing to do, so.

MARK BRODIE: Sure. I’m curious about how you have seen these last few years — especially at a sort of a specialty independent, you know, art house a movie theater — in terms of like all the challenges with people wanting to watch movies on their living room couches, or you know, some of the big blockbusters where you know, they want to maybe go to the multiplex kind of thing. Like, what what has it looked like for you guys?

PEGGY JOHNSON: You know, it’s been really interesting since 2002. We’ve seen every single film was on film. And then in 2012, no film was on film, and that was a big change. A lot of art houses didn’t make that transition because it was so expensive. And then, you know, there’s been streaming and COVID and now, you know, as you said, a lot of people are opting to stay home and watch films on streaming.

But they’re not going to watch "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" on 70mm at home, and a lot of people want to see something like, you know, "The Backrooms," for example, they want to see that on the big screen. Because it’s an immersive kind of experience.

I think people during COVID really kind of stayed home more than they wanted to, and now they realize they need to get out and do something. And I think going to the movies is something that people just enjoy, being in a dark room with strangers and friends. And, you know, when you laugh at a movie in your living room, it’s great, but when you hear like 200 other people laughing at the same thing, it’s just a a different kind of joyful experience, or or being afraid, or you know, we saw "Close Encounters" with a completely sold out 370 people. And it was ... it was just fun, you know, it’s just you can’t replicate the communal experience at home. And, you know, I think people have always wanted to be — it’s a human need, you know, to be in a social situation, to be in a community of people sharing an experience. And I think the film is a very affordable democratic way to get that need met.

MARK BRODIE: What is the market like these days for foreign films, independent films, especially in Tucson?

PEGGY JOHNSON: I think it’s good. I mean, we we do well. I have to admit that you know, having a film festival, is really important because sometimes the foreign films and the documentaries don’t get major releases, and so we end up not being able to show as many of those as we used to.

Since COVID, the landscape has changed with what’s available to us. So we like for instance, we open "Disclosure Day." The idea, you know, before COVID, that we would open open a Steven Spielberg film would have just been a joke. There was no way the distributor would give us that film, and now, you know, we’re opening it.

And it’s ... so the availability, we’ve got more available to us, so it makes it harder for us to fit some of the smaller films in, but we do do it and we we make it a priority. Sometimes it’s just one screening, or sometimes it’s one screening a day for a week. So it just, you know, it’s become a challenge. But people our audiences still really respond well to foreign films and docs, so, you know, we do we do well with them.

MARK BRODIE: All right, that is Peggy Johnson, soon to be the executive director emeritus at the Loft Cinema in Tucson. Peggy, thanks so much and congratulations on your kind of quasi-retirement.

PEGGY JOHNSON: Thank you, Mark. I appreciate it.

LAUREN GILGER: And now it’s time for a Tiny Desert Concert, and our next act is one you have probably heard of.

Phoenix Afrobeat Orchestra is one of the most popular, longest running, and biggest local bands. And we mean biggest in the most literal sense here, there are 13 official members of the band.

And they are a force, from the powerful vocals of front woman Camille Sledge of Sister Sledge heritage, to their infectious polyrhythms, to a horn section that makes you want to dance.

PAO, as their fans know them, is rooted in the Afrobeat tradition created by Fela Kuti. But their lyrics have grappled with some of the most pressing issues facing our city since the era of SB 1070, more than a decade ago. The whole group took the stage at the Arizona Science Center’s Dorrance DOME recently to play us a few songs and get us all on our feet.

And after, I sat down with Sledge as well as trumpet player and music director Aldy Montufar, and multi-instrumentalist and vocalist Mitch Freedom to talk more about their music, their legacy, and how they each got involved in this project to begin with.

CAMILLE SLEDGE: I had just had my first child and I just thought, “Oh well, I’m not going to be having time now that I’m a mom, I’m not going to have time to do this. So I’m just going to do backgrounds and I’ll just hang out in the background, see you guys at shows.”

And I went to one rehearsal, I already knew one of the songs that they were playing — it was one of my favorite Fela Kuti songs — and I kind of just winged it. I wasn’t trying to be on the mic, I just was playing around, and they were like, “We would like for you to be our lead singer.”

LAUREN GILGER: That’s all it took?

CAMILLE SLEDGE: And I’m like, “What?” I didn’t think I didn’t think of that at all. No, I didn’t think of that at all. I was like, “William, I’m so sorry, I’m going to do it. I’m going to do it.” I love it, it was like one of thing that I felt like I was missing from my life.

LAUREN GILGER: Absolutely. What about you, Aldy? What are your memories of those kind of early days?

ALDY MONTUFAR: Very similar story. I just had a baby and I was like, “I’m about to be a dad, I don’t want to commit to anything.” So actually, I said “No, thank you.”

And then a year later like right around when my daughter was like 10-11 months old, I was like, “All right, I can do things now, I can do cool things now.” So then, I’ll come to a rehearsal and I’ll see how it is and I didn’t commit to anything, and I just showed up with my trumpet and immediately just immediately felt the vibe and and loved it and immediately stepped into like probably overstep with like, “Horns, you should be doing this, vocals, you should be doing this.”

LAUREN GILGER: Music director!

ALDY MONTUFAR: Yeah, and I was like, that’s my lane. So immediately I took that and there was no resistance to that, everybody was like, “Yeah, cool, love it, love it.” And yeah, by the end of that rehearsal I think it was the same thing like, “Would you consider being like music director because that’s what you do?” And I was like, “Yeah, let me let me really really think about it before I commit.” And then by the next week I was like, “Cool, I’m in, let’s do it.”

[PHOENIX AFROBEAT ORCHESTRA BEGINS PLAYING “I SAID WHAT I SAID”]

LAUREN GILGER: OK, so let’s talk about Fela Kuti, let’s talk about Afrobeat music. There are rules to this genre, right?

CAMILLE SLEDGE: Are there?

ALDY MONTUFAR: I mean there’s norms, not necessarily rules, yeah.

MITCH FREEDOM: There’s an aesthetic that people hear and then they classify it as Afrobeat music, and a lot of that has to do with the syncopated drumming of Tony Allen, the horn heavy melodies that kind of like dominate the songs, horn players coming from African jazz and highlife music, found funk music of James Brown, and they were like, “That’s the energy. Like let’s take our sensibilities of this West African jazz music and speed it up a little bit, add some really cool syncopated drums and polyrhythms.”

And then, Fela Kuti himself was just such a personality and a leader, which is I think one thing that we found in Camille that made the project make sense.

[“I SAID WHAT I SAID” CONTINUES]

LAUREN GILGER: So, I mean that many people on stage has such a feeling, which we all just experienced, right? And is it like that for each of you? Like, you’ve done this for a long time, like we’re talking more than a decade of performances in this group. Does it still kind of hold that magic?

CAMILLE SLEDGE: Yes.

ALDY MONTUFAR: Every single time.

CAMILLE SLEDGE: Every single show.

MITCH FREEDOM: Definitely.

ALDY MONTUFAR: Yeah. I think that’s what keeps us doing it for so long because it’s it’s almost like a medicine for us, right, when when the world is coming down, we still have each other and the music to like escape from that sometimes.

MITCH FREEDOM: The experience too. Like I came out playing in orchestras and symphonies and just like instant chills like the moment everybody is kind of interacting and there’s all of that interplay between the instruments. And so that kind of like sound and power behind what we’re doing I think gives everybody like this really cool high creatively.

CAMILLE SLEDGE: Yeah. I would also add that the political message is really what’s a core important part of this music as well. And we all were going through what Phoenix was giving us, right? In this city, there’s a lot of inequities and there’s a lot of social injustice. And being together at that time when a lot of this craziness has been going on.

LAUREN GILGER: This is SB 1070 era, right?

CAMILLE SLEDGE: Yeah. Since then, yeah. And we were able to make a message about it in our music, and make it so that it was — digestible, I’ll say.

LAUREN GILGER: That’s one of the things that’s interesting about Afrobeat music, right? Like it’s super upbeat, it’s super fun, everybody’s dancing, but it’s like if you listen to what people are saying, it’s pretty heavy sometimes, right?

ALDY MONTUFAR: Totally.

CAMILLE SLEDGE: It’s heavy lyrics and we had these different conversations at our rehearsals, and then we would start jamming on it: OK this is a something we probably need to talk about. Let’s talk about it, but let’s try and make it sound like something funky.

[“I SAID WHAT I SAID” CONTINUES]

LAUREN GILGER: Camille, you’ve described this as like a trance. The way you talk about it is almost like it’s a like a spiritual practice. You feel that way?

CAMILLE SLEDGE: It is. Yeah, it is. It’s a moment where I think we ask people to go deep, we ask them to kind of internalize the lyrics but also internalize the music, internalize these sounds that you’re hearing, because a lot of it’s repetitive, and it’s very much something that you can you can really go inward, and I love that about this music.

That’s what drew me into listening to Afrobeat in the first place, was this really great rhythm beat, this music that you can just kind of dive into and um lose yourself dancing, lose yourself thinking about what the words are saying.

And really, I wanted us to all do that for Phoenix, for this this area, for our local community. Like, what things are we going through here, in Phoenix? Think about that. And how can you help? Where do you fit in? You’re a part of it. You’re a part of this community.

So, we all kind of have these moments where when we’re writing songs, as well as when we’re playing them, that we can lose ourselves in that, and I think it’s really, really special.

[PHOENIX AFROBEAT ORCHESTRA INTRODUCES AND PLAYS “THE TIMES”]

LAUREN GILGER: I wonder this, like as you think about the purpose that you were talking about there, Camille, like that community aspect, where you’re trying to get people to think about this place and being a member of this community, and you’ve been doing it for so long. What do you think the impact of that can be? Like the the real impact of having played to that many people in this place with that message?

CAMILLE SLEDGE: I think it can move mountains. We have moments where we’ve led protest marches. We’ve had all kinds of politicians at our shows. We’ve had moments where we have led charges to change things in our social climate here in Phoenix and and beyond. We’ve had moments where I feel really proud of us because we’ve moved a lot of mountains, and I think that that keeps us going.

[“THE TIMES” CONTINUES]

MITCH FREEDOM: Being able to draw a lot of people out based on our reputation.

ALDY MONTUFAR: We use it as this is our platform, right? This is the way that we get the message out.

CAMILLE SLEDGE: Music is a weapon, and we use it as such.

MITCH FREEDOM: And we extend that. We extend it to other organizations in our community, and bringing people together is the first part of it. I think letting organizations come and table and have conversations with our fans and make them their fans as well, I think is the key, like the goal for us in terms of uniting the community.

LAUREN GILGER: You’re a big voice, you have a big platform in the local scene here. When you talk about Phoenix and and the longevity of this group, like Phoenix has changed a ton in the 10-plus years you’ve been doing this, right? Thirteen years now?

What do you think about that and sort of the way that you maybe and this place have evolved over that time?

ALDY MONTUFAR: I think that Phoenix is it’s it’s weird because we can see all the changes, but we can also see how there are a lot of things that haven’t changed and how our message from a song that we wrote 10 years ago is still relevant and we can still sing about the same issues that we sang about a decade ago, and they still make sense to us, and we can still include that message in there.

So when it comes to progressiveness and seeing young people and young artists come up and doing cool things, I think that that has changed a lot. But also in the grand scheme of things, there’s a lot of work to be done and we can continue to to focus on that and continue to work on that.

LAUREN GILGER: Sounds like you are nowhere near done.

ALDY MONTUFAR: Exactly.

LAUREN GILGER: All right. Well, Camille, Mitch, Aldy, thank you so much for doing this. Appreciate it.

ALDY MONTUFAR AND MITCH FREEDOM: Thank you.

CAMILLE SLEDGE: Thank you, Lauren.

[“THE TIMES” CONTINUES]

LAUREN GILGER: This is our latest Tiny Desert Concert with Phoenix Afrobeat Orchestra. You can watch the video of their entire performance on our YouTube page and website. And trust me, you’ll want to watch this one under the stars in the dome. It was really cool. To check it out, head to theshow.kjzz.org.

LAUREN GILGER: Thanks for listening to The Show’s podcast. The Show is produced by Sativa Peterson, Nick Sanchez, Amber Victoria Singer, Athena Ankrah, and Ayana Hamilton. The Show was created by Jon Hoban, and our executive producer is Amy Silverman. You can find more of The Show and sign up for our newsletter at theshow.kjzz.org. You can also find us on Instagram @kjzztheshow.