For a long time in American politics, it’s seemed that the right had a claim to patriotism. From the symbols of patriotism — flying a flag or sporting a GOD BLESS AMERICA bumper sticker, to the actual data. A Gallup poll from earlier this summer showed nearly 60% of Republicans said they were "extremely proud" to be American, while 34% of Democrats were. But, that’s up from the record low of 2019, when just 22% of Democrats called themselves extremely proud of their country.
But, that all looked very different earlier this summer in Chicago at the Democratic National Convention. It all culminated in Arizona Congressman Ruben Gallego bringing up a crowd of Democratic politicians who have served in the military to be recognized.
The Kamala Harris and Tim Walz campaign has centralized patriotism, painting their stories as the kind that can only happen in America, as The New York Times points out, and celebrating our country and all that it stands for.
Sam Richard, a Democratic consultant with Consilium Consulting in Arizona, said it’s a stark change from what we’ve seen from the left in recent years, but it’s an important one.
Richard joined The Show to discuss how he agrees the right seems to have a hold on at least the outward signs of patriotism, he sees it as more complicated than that. And it’s today’s Deep Dive.
Full conversation
SAM RICHARD: Without question. I think from a symbolic standpoint, from that surface level, I think there's clear ownership, at least from a perception that the right has, you know, kind of a first position when it comes to what we understand is patriotism.
LAUREN GILGER: So I want to talk about what that looks like and what might be causing that on the left, like in the circles that you run in and in the Democratic politics world here in Arizona. Do you hear a lot of complaints about, you know about right now, it's the war in Gaza, right? Or if it's climate change or if it's, you know, sort of this idea of an imperialistic America and all over the world. Where do you think it stems from?
RICHARD: I think for me, you know, as a Democrat and as someone who lives by progressive values, the underlying intent of progress is that you need to see where there are opportunities for improvement. And I think that that's something that doesn't always align with people's understanding of patriotism. And there's a difference between blind faith in something and really wanting to make it better every day.
I am proud of my children, but that doesn't mean that, you know, I don't tell them where they can improve and be better tomorrow. And I think for me and the folks that I associate with as Democrats, that's what we want to do.
There are opportunities for improvement in America's posture towards the Gaza and Israel conflict. I think that maybe how those conversations are talked about, whether it's performative outrage or actual honest conversations around policy differences, I think may be where some of the other consternation might come from.
But inherently for me, that is what being a progressive is about is trying to move forward with an understanding of where we've been. And you don't do that without being honestly critical and kind of making some, you know, courageous truth telling central to the conversation.
GILGER: I think that's really interesting. Is there a loss in that or at least a risk maybe politically, which is, you know, your business here, right? Like as you look at something like the way that maybe people in the middle look at the left, maybe not just the Democratic Party, but that all gets looped in, right? Do you think there's a risk in, in, in kind of ceding patriotism.?
RICHARD: Yes, it is a risky endeavor because whether or not you're talking about people watching all 90 minutes of a presidential debate or caring about a policy at an intricate or complex level, the easiest answer usually wins. And I think that, you know, as a progressive, as a Democrat, it's hard to compete with less government, fewer taxes. That's, you know, that's a pretty well understood kind of rallying cry and in the same respect, patriotism is the same way, right? Like we should all support our flag, we should all support, you know, Fourth of July parades and things like that.
But I think that in my view, kneeling during the national anthem is a very powerful statement to make on really important topics. And it is a tool in a toolbox that says, hey, look over here because we're not currently looking over here. And I still love this country and I want to be a part of this country, but there are some pieces of it that I feel needs improvement.
And a way to do that is to call it out by doing something like burning the flag or kneeling during the national anthem. I think that's where it's easy to paint someone who might be doing that as unpatriotic. But in my view, that is the opposite of the truth.
GILGER: Now, we're seeing a really interesting moment in this, right? Because now we have a Democratic candidate for president, Kamala Harris, who is really embracing patriotism in a way that I don't know if we've seen of late. Watching the DNC was interesting, right? Because there were flags everywhere and chants of USA, USA. And she's, you know, trying to claim this idea of freedom and of American values and sort of her own quintessential American upbringing. What do you make of that like coming from this sort of critical patriotic position that you've described here?
RICHARD: Yeah, I think that, that Harris-Walz's campaign has a unique opportunity right now to capture this moment because to our earlier conversation, we were talking about the symbolic or kind of the natural ways that patriotism comes through. And for many people that is law enforcement and military service.
So you have someone who served as the attorney general for the nation's largest state alongside someone who's running for a vice president who spent years in the National Guard. If you juxtapose that with their alternatives, you have someone who served essentially a third of that time in, in the military for the vice presidency. And then the person running for president opted out of the draft for Vietnam by making up an excuse around bone spurs.
So there is an opportunity in a moment to capture a redefinition of partisan alignment with patriotism. And what true patriotism is.
GILGER: I want to ask you about immigration as well because I think that, that, I mean, it's such a huge topic on the campaign trail right now for everybody here in Arizona and nationally. But also it's, it's an interesting moment in the debate over patriotism, right.
Because lots of people will say immigration is the most patriotic thing you can do, right. Like come to this country and want to be here. But, but also you've seen Harris shift her position on immigration quite a bit and now is talking very tough about the border. How do you think that plays in?
RICHARD: Again, I think that there are complexities to patriotism, which I think is maybe a theme of some of my answers here. And I feel like one of the things that we're seeing with the conversation around immigration is the separation from immigration policy and border security. And I believe that the Harris-Walz campaign has done a highly effective job at separating the two and talking about how welcoming immigrants is something that is a bedrock and foundational piece of who America is.
At the same time, we need borders to define what America is. So I think separating who is America from what is America is something that will define the future of immigration policy conversations for a long time to come.
And I think that that is where the dialogue is has shifted. And I think that aligns with most voters, I mean, I think to bring it to Arizona, what now is known as Proposition 314, and was previously HCR 2060 the Legislature, the Republican-led Legislature attempted to separate border security from immigration policy. And you're seeing this play out in polling where that might be the top vote-getting initiative at the ballot this year, which we are the state, we are the home of the crisis around SB 1070. So to have that as bookends for the last 15 to 20 years has been an incredible journey to watch.
GILGER: Tell us about your own political journey when it comes to patriotism, Sam, like, would you call yourself a patriot?
RICHARD: Absolutely. I wouldn't necessarily put it on the first line of my LinkedIn bio. But I, I do, I do think that that's where I align. And I think that what's interesting from a full circle perspective is that military service is something that's been very important to my family. Both of my grandfathers served. So that has always been there.
But I've also been a lifelong Democrat. My parents are members of their local union at the school district that they serve in. So I think that, that the connection between patriotism and Democratic politics has never been one that has fazed me as an individual. I'm very, very proud of this country. I'm also not shy about highlighting where and how and what we can do better.
And for me, one of my first and dear mentors said that America would not be America without the dissent and discourse that highlights how we can do better tomorrow. And for me that's, that's patriotism.
GILGER: Have there been times though when you've been really mad at America?
RICHARD: Absolutely. I think maybe more so domestically than internationally because there are things that I understand more clearly. But for a nation that is as wealthy as ours, you know, at, at, at a kind of a high level, it pains me to see the poverty and what I see because of the work that I do, the clear lines between policy changes and economic equity that we could achieve.
And I think that, that there will always be opportunities that make me proud to be an American as well as instances and, and scenarios in which I would be much prouder if we did things differently.
GILGER: That's interesting. So I want to ask you about this because we talked about immigration, right? And I always think about this when I'm thinking about patriotism on the left. I have a friend who is probably one of the more liberal people who I know. And he agrees with, you know, a lot of the issues that you're talking about here would totally agree with that and be critical of those things in this country.
But he's also an immigrant, he came from Croatia, and I've seen him get mad at people who sort of trash America too much and say like this is, you know, these are all the problems and we are worst and we should be doing things differently because he has this very different perspective on that. I wonder if you've thought about that or, you know, people like that, if that's a narrative in your life?
RICHARD: Absolutely, Lauren. For me, I think that one of the things that is at issue here is that if you don't have that personal experience, it's really hard to fully empathize with someone else's experience. And because America is exceptional and because America is so great, we are lucky enough that likely 98% of people here have never had to have those very, very painful experiences in Croatia or Afghanistan or people who, you know, are refugees to America from their homeland because of that pain.
There are very few American refugees that, that go other places because America is unique and exceptional and you have that bias of the experience that you had. So coming into a conversation where you're like, here's what I could do to make it better. You know, someone's like, we are already three decades better just because I showed up compared to where I came from. So it's difficult. It's complex and I think that is what we're scratching at.
GILGER: Maybe it says something about America that immigrants are the most patriotic among us sometimes.
RICHARD: Absolutely. Yeah. And I, in the same way that I think that everyone should work in customer service or restaurant world, I think that every American citizen should spend at least a month of their lives every decade in another country just to, you know, appreciate what's different and appreciate what we hold dear here in America.
