The town of Queen Creek recently approved an ordinance that prohibits taxpayer money from being spent on "diversity, equity and inclusion," or DEI trainings. The vote was unanimous, and supporters say it makes Queen Creek the first city or town in Arizona to take this step.
The resolution requires the town to hire based on “merit, rather than affirmative action.” Some council members also believe DEI trainings divide people. Supporters of DEI, though, argue it helps diverse groups of people understand each other and their different life experiences, in a better and more productive way that benefits the entire workforce.
Austin VanDerHeyden, director of Municipal Affairs at the Goldwater Institute, joined The Show to talk about the thinking behind getting Queen Creek to approve this ordinance.
Full conversation
AUSTIN VANDERHEYDEN: Well, really what we saw is, is Queen Creek sent a message to the taxpayers that are going to be focused on putting, you know, they're hard earned tax dollars to good use. They're going to put it and be focused on things like infrastructure parks, public safety, the essentials of local government, they're going to hire based on merit, which they had already been doing. But really, they're doubling down on that and really they're defining what the role of local government is and that's focusing on the essentials and that's, that's a welcome sight from our perspective.
MARK BRODIE: Well, so I'm curious from a practical standpoint, as you say, Queen Creek was not doing these to begin with. So, in terms of the actual ordinance, nothing really changes, right?
VANDERHEYDEN: Yeah, there are a few things that that it does, it does double down like you have mentioned on, on what they're already doing, which is, you know, merit based hiring, merit based practices, things like that, but it also kind of protects taxpayer dollars and make sure that they're not going to be spending it on things like hiring outside consultants to come and push some of these policies and throughout the hiring practice.
It changes a few things with, with, you know, requiring people to sign on to kind of diversity statements as a condition of hiring, which we've seen at, you know, some public education like Arizona State University required that some of those types of things. So it really doesn't change much because, you know, those things weren't happening. But it just kind of prevents the town from doing so in the future.
BRODIE: In terms of the actual trainings themselves, are there cities or towns across the state that have been doing these kinds of trainings that you found problematic?
VANDERHEYDEN: Yeah, so earlier in the year we had seen Gilbert Queen Creek's neighboring town mandate unconscious bias training for all new hires. And, and really, again, we, we kind of talked about you know, if there's the city and towns, they're, they're kind of at a point where they're saying that, you know, their decreased budgets are, are due to things like, you know, the rental tax going away and they're already kind of cash strapped.
And so, you know, look at Gilbert, for example, they spent over a million dollars on, on implementing some of these policies and these trainings. And so you look at then Queen Creek saying, you know, we're going to take that million dollars and put it towards things like parks, public safety infrastructure.
And I think that's a welcome site and, and something that you know, potentially other towns could look at.
BRODIE: Is your problem and maybe is Goldwater's problem with DEI trainings? Is it more with the content? Is it with the using of taxpayer funds and the cost of it? Is it a combination of both of those?
VANDERHEYDEN: Sure, it might be a combination of both. But I think in this, in this specific case, you know, you're looking at a town saying we're going to just strictly focus on the essentials of local government and, and, and put it towards, again, things like parks, public safety, infrastructure, whatever, you know, you wanna want to name.
But, but to, to us, I think that that's a much better use of taxpayer dollars on focusing on some of these essentials than doing things like Gilbert had been doing, you know, spending over a million dollars on some of these types of trainings.
BRODIE: Do you buy into the argument that sometimes doing these kinds of trainings can make things run more efficiently that if employees, for example, of coworkers, sort of understand how each other thinks and you know what each other's experience is like, it makes the workplace a more harmonious one, a more efficient one which could, in theory, save money?
VANDERHEYDEN: Sure. And I think that there's ways to do some of those things without doing the trainings that they were doing. I mean, for example, unconscious bias training, you're teaching people that there's two separate types of people, there's the oppressed and the oppressor and things like that. And I don't really see how that's the role of town government.
I don't really see how immediately dividing people is going to make things more harmonious. And so from our perspective, I think that there are other ways to do that. I think diversity is a great thing and it should be celebrated. But, but in the way that these towns have been doing it and, and in the dollars that was spent on doing it, I just don't think it was effective.
BRODIE: So, if a city or town in Arizona wanted to achieve those goals, how would you advise that they go about doing it?
VANDERHEYDEN: I'm not running a city or town. And so, you know, I, I don't have kind of that, that answer for you, but what I will say is, is I just think that kind of doing what Queen Creek did and say, you know, we're gonna celebrate things like individual achievement. We're going to, you know, focus on the successes of, of every individual and provide quality for all. I think those are some of the more effective policies.
And again, you're showing taxpayers that you're focused on spending their tax dollars in effective ways and in essential ways, especially at a time when, when so many cities are worried about cash and, and their spending power.
BRODIE: If there was some group that came in, let's say, and offered to do a free training or if the city itself had, you know, developed or, or gotten sort of a free curriculum to do this, would that be less problematic to you if they weren't spending taxpayer dollars to send people to trainings or have train pay to have trainers come into the city or town?
VANDERHEYDEN: Yes. So there's already some trainings that are, that are being really protected by the, the resolution that Queen Creek did, which, you know, some of them are like federal trainings that are required for police officers or firefighters.
And so there are some of those types of trainings that are already taking place that are mandated by the federal government and, and all of those are, you know, those are what again is acceptable through the city, again, yeah, it's more about the taxpayer dollars being spent on these types of things that is a little bit more objectionable.
BRODIE: In your mind, is it a worthwhile goal for cities and towns to try to figure out how to do these kinds of trainings without having to, to spend taxpayer money out? Like for you, is it, is it worth it to, to have the training assuming that they can do it and not spend a ton of money doing it?
VANDERHEYDEN: I think it's always important to make sure that everyone feels included and everyone, you know, feels heard. I, I definitely think that you need that in, in every sort of organization or, or team. And so I definitely agree with you on that. But what I don't agree with is spending taxpayer dollars on, on doing this and when you're immediately dividing people again into those two kind of groups of the oppressed and oppressor, I don't, I don't see that as being an effective way to run any organization, let alone, you know, a publicly funded city or town.
BRODIE: So, in terms of the content though, and as you reference, you know, some of them are seen as dividing people, is it a problem for people who have had maybe different experiences in their lives to be able to express those and have people who haven't undergone those, maybe try to understand them so that everybody can try to figure out, OK, different people have different experiences and, you know, for those who have had more unfortunate experiences, how can people who haven't maybe try to help prevent those from happening down the road?
VANDERHEYDEN: Sure. And I, I also think that that, you know, you look at what Queen Creek did and what they discussed at their meeting talking about. Let's start to focus more on things that unite us and, and what a better uniter than success or individual achievement. And let's congratulate people when they do a good job. Let's focus on the successes.
And I think that bringing people together and uniting people behind that kind of a common goal is also something that I noticed Queen Creek was focusing on and I think we should do a lot more of that.
BRODIE: Are there other cities or towns in Arizona that Goldwater is working on to try to pass similar ordinances?
VANDERHEYDEN: No, nothing in particular. I just think that Queen Creek decided to take it upon themselves to, to do this, this issue. And, and again, Goldwater's worked on this issue across the state and at public universities like Arizona State, but Queen Creek just decided to do this on their own.
