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Why candidates choose to run for office, or not

maricopa county ballot
Sky Schaudt/KJZZ
A Maricopa County early ballot.

This year’s ballot is a long one, with lots of candidates running for lots of offices. But there are also races in which there is just one candidate — and some elections where nobody has stepped forward to run.

Fred DuVal is currently on the Arizona Board of Regents, but he ran for governor in 2014 and has also served in behind-the-scenes political roles, including in the Clinton administration. Kevin DeMenna is a longtime lobbyist, political observer and senior advisor of DeMenna Public Affairs.

DuVal and DeMenna joined The Show to discuss why people choose to run for office, and why they choose not to.

Full conversation

MARK BRODIE: Fred, let me start with you. You've run for office before, what prompted you to do it?

FRED DUVAL: If you, you know, if you care about the place that you live, you inevitably get drawn into the civic square and that manifests in a variety of different things, nonprofits, philanthropic groups, et cetera. But in the end, power resides with people who stand for public office.

If you believe in things and change and ideas, it's the place where you go to, to make the changes that you envision for the world that you live in. And so it's, it's a very, very sort of attractive thing to grow up and live in a democracy where you can say, I've got something I want to say, here's how you do it, you fill a form and you go run. It's just getting increasingly difficult. It's not that simple.

BRODIE: Right. Well, and you've also been somebody who has been in, in the political world behind the scenes, not as an elected official, but helping people who have been elected. I'm curious how you see the, the difference between being the person upfront whose name is on the ballot and the person who's maybe helping the person whose name was on the ballot.

DUVAL: Mark, it's a great point and question because I thought, having been in more campaign meetings then I can count, working for more politicians than I can count, local, presidential, et cetera. I thought, I know what this is going to be about. I'm ready for this.

It is fundamentally different. It's your reputation that gets hit. It's your social media blasts that get promoted. It's your spending time on the telephone asking people for money. It's intensely personal. It's exhilarating. It was described to me as, as sort of, you know, being a Wallenda. There's nothing quite like being on the rope, you know, dangling over the Grand Canyon. So it is ultimately exhilarating, but fundamentally different when it's, it's you, your family, your pocketbook and everything that comes with it.

BRODIE: So, Kevin, you are somebody who has been in politics for a long time, but exclusively behind the scenes. Does what Fred is saying ring true to you in terms of maybe some of the reasons why people choose to maybe take your path as opposed to the putting your name on the ballot path?

KEVIN DEMENNA: It's a difficult question to, you know, answer in, in sort of a just simple way. The fact is I lack the courage to knock on your door and discuss immigration with you. I, I have been consistently impressed with individuals that can do that and succeed. You know, that's the granular side, but you're putting yourself out there in a way that demonstrates your commitment.

But there is a part of, of our world where we all have an interest in doing good. And, and there are other ways that manifests itself for those of us that are political observers, civil servants, whatever you want to call it. But the folks on point, like my good friend Mr. Duval here, now have much more risk. It's much more difficult. And, and so as a result, I expect them to be much more choosy about whether to take the plunge or not.

BRODIE: Well, so Kevin, when prospective candidates come to you, maybe, especially those who haven't run before, what do you tell them or how do you try to prepare them for what they can expect once they start running?

DEMENNA: The first question is always tell me about your family. If you have four children under, you know, in school and you intend to engage at the legislative level, at state government level, it's manageable. But the trips to Washington, that requires a different level of commitment and interest. All of these positions come with the word honorable permanently affixed to the front of your name. And, and so with so many people, that matters too much and that makes it worth spending the week in D.C. on matters that might seem more important than your children. But that's not a decision I've ever been able to make. The first thing I say when I interview someone is just, talk, talk with me about the age of your family and your ability to sustain this.

Fred DuVal (left) and Kevin Demenna in the KJZZ studios in Tempe.
Amber Victoria Singer/KJZZ
Fred DuVal (left) and Kevin Demenna in the KJZZ studios in Tempe.

BRODIE: Fred, do you find that people who run for office? Like, are they doing it for the right reasons? Are they doing it because they really want to make a difference or they may be doing it because they like having the word honorable in front of their name?

DUVAL: All the above. And sometimes it takes all of the above. You know, you got to believe in something. I think that is first and foremost the, the, the candidates who aren't clear on their purpose and on their why get flushed out. You, you've got to sort of think through the hard work of why are you doing this and why are you putting everybody around you, to Kevin's point about family, through what you're about to do? So, the why is really, really important.

I, I think the good ones have to be fundamentally optimistic, whatever your ideology. I think you've got to believe that the efforts will manifest in something useful. And frankly, that's increasingly hard because nothing gets done, particularly in Washington. You know, so much of politics has become sort of performance art as opposed to, to purpose and outcomes.

And then to Kevin's point, he asks about family, which is appropriate. My second quick follow up is, can you afford it? It is an assault on your wallet in ways that folks don't really appreciate.

BRODIE: I gotta say the two of you are making running for office sound incredibly appealing. I mean, it's, you're talking about how expensive it is and how difficult it is and how, you know, you get trolled on social media and you get all sorts of nasty things said about you. Do you, you find, Kevin, that people are less willing now to go through all of that? Like, are we dealing with a dearth of, of quality candidates here?

DEMENNA: It's, it's a fascinating thing because no, the cup runneth over. It's just a completely different level of interest. And, and, and they're kind of two interesting extremes. I there are folks that are so put off by the principled side, the, the, the, the absence of dignity that that's got them off the bench.

BRODIE: Because it's gotten so bad, they are drawn in to try to make it better?

DEMENNA: Exactly. The other aspect is that money. This is my 44th year doing this. Money was absolutely the critical question. And now it's not an afterthought but raising money and funding messaging at any level. State federal isn't that hard. It's, it's, it's too easy to access the money. And in fact, that allows things to happen that just shouldn't happen.

DUVAL: And let me pick up on that because I, I was going to say something similar. That's exactly right. We, we have become so cause-oriented, so existential in our politics. The right and left considers the other side to be a threat to the existence of everything that we know and prize in our culture and our politics. That lends itself to the kind of fundraising that Kevin's talking about. And it lends itself to an impossibility of ever working with the other side to try and solve problems. So it is an inducement to run and it is a dis-inducement to serve.

BRODIE: Well, I was gonna say, it sounds like that kind of creates this vicious cycle where more people are drawn to run. But then as you both alluded to, it's really hard to actually get anything done whether you're at the state Capitol or the U.S. Capitol, which then at least for some politicians causes them to walk away in disgust.

DUVAL: Well, yes.

DEMENNA: Can we get Mitt Romney on the phone?

[LAUGHS]

DUVAL: And actually, and, and Mitt Romney, I was reading an interview with, about him this morning and he, he made two great points on this very topic. First, he said so much of what happens now in Washington is fake. And the second is he pointed out, which I had not realized that this is the highest number of resignations in the Congress that we've seen in a generation.

So people are hitting a wall and saying this is no longer satisfying, the cost-benefit of this is no longer positive and no longer an inducement to serve. Which is, which is a sad thing.

BRODIE: Kevin, if candidates are inclined to run and interested in going through everything you two have described, how are those people choosing which office to run for?

DEMENNA: The dynamic now, I have worked with the folks on school boards and their dedication is just amazing, the hours and then eventually their child graduates and goes on to college. And someone else takes that school board spot, but their interest, their passion. At the Legislature, water, you know, if you've been a rancher; emergency room doctors. You wanna change what you know needs to be changed.

The ability to monetize your position has changed that. The inducement to serve “noblesse oblige” and this public radio so I'm sure everyone knows what that means. But just in case, you know what it really means is, is as you are privileged, you pay it forward. You have this inherent hardwired obligation to serve those that have helped make your life so good.

Now, that's what we should be looking for and relying upon. The model as it exists now is that you can raise hundreds of thousands of dollars out of state wherever state you are. And Arizona is the recipient of this. We have legislators that are filing 600-page donor reports. A couple of those pages are Arizona donations. And the money and the ability to move that is unrelated to what I would simply describe as “noblesse oblige.” It has become a lifestyle.

BRODIE: So, Kevin, you mentioned that we are not having an issue with having enough people running for office and I'm not gonna ask you to name names or throw anybody under the bus here. But I'm curious, do we have the right kinds of people running for office? Like we have the quantity, do we have the quality?

DEMENNA: : So it's, it's not a hard question to answer. By and large, we do. But here is the lens you have to evaluate this in a couple of stages. In January, they'll get oriented after Thanksgiving. They'll meet their assistant and they'll begin legislating the day after. They don't yet know where bills come from, the, the products. And they don't have a good idea of the path ahead. So it makes it very difficult to be effective in the first regular session.

By the second regular session, they have discovered the location of the restrooms and all of this. So we have a challenge in terms of distinguishing those that can really cover ground and those that can't. But I'll tell you what is becoming much more clear: There is an interest in opening this up so that they can become that person.

DUVAL: Let me build on that Mark. I admire people who run, I admire people who serve, and I have found that almost everyone who does so is a decent, well-intentioned, patriotic informed person doing it for good reasons. There are some exceptions … ideology sometimes gets in the way, but generally speaking, pretty terrific people who are then thrust into a set of incentives, which test who they are and how rooted they are and how, what kind of an elected official they wanna be.

The lure of how to raise money requires certain behavioral patterns. The lure of how to get along with your caucus requires certain choices, certain votes, et cetera. The incredibly destructive lure of social media. You, you, you create news with friction, not with solutions. And the lure towards friction drives money, it drives a whole bunch of things. So the incentive package. It is what it is, but it's, it's not conducive to, you know, collaborative behavior. And so folks get tested.

BRODIE: So, Fred, do you think then that people maybe run for the right reasons, but it almost sounds like you're saying the system into which they're being thrust, maybe makes it hard to govern for the right reasons or govern in the, in the right way, maybe because of the need to, for example, constantly fundraise so that they can get re-elected or knock on, you know, go and knock on doors or deal with, you know, everything that's being said about them online, things like that?

DUVAL: It, it does make it harder. I'll tell you a story. I ran for governor about 10 years ago, and I really wanted to try and be thoughtful and put a bunch of ideas forward and I had a bet with my consulting team. They said, look, here's what we'll do. We'll do one direct mail piece your way.

You can talk about groundwater and education reform and you know, the future of the state Land Department, whatever you want to talk about and then we'll do one where we'll call the other side, evil people. Well, mine raised about $2,000; theirs raised about $20,000 you know. Ok, that's a point made.

DEMENNA: This is politics and no matter how we want to recast it, elevate it, throw around terms like noblesse oblige, it is politics. It's not a corporate way of doing business. I think the point is the process itself needs to be more welcoming. This is not an easy thing to get into given where our parties are. The normal entry points are vanishing. And what that does by the way is make people who don't work for the government more influential. The lobbying corps has disproportionate influence when the legislative corps steps back.

KJZZ's The Show transcripts are created on deadline. This text is edited for length and clarity, and may not be in its final form. The authoritative record of KJZZ's programming is the audio record.

Mark Brodie is a co-host of The Show, KJZZ’s locally produced news magazine. Since starting at KJZZ in 2002, Brodie has been a host, reporter and producer, including several years covering the Arizona Legislature, based at the Capitol.
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