The world of comic books continues to be popular — and movies based on them regularly see box office success. But, some fans don’t think the genre gets its due, and is worthy of more respect as an art form.
A new anthology, called "Comics Lit Issue 1," makes the argument that comic books are, in fact, high art. It includes essays comparing Superman and Moses, making the case for teaching comics in college and exploring the role of race in comic books.
Tonya Todd, an author, actress and activist and one of the editors of "Comics Lit Issue 1," also contributed an essay about two of her favorite female characters. Todd joined The Show to talk about when she first started getting into comic books.
Full conversation
TONYA TODD: As a child, I mean, not not early, but. Actually, technically, I don't think I was a child anymore. I just, I don't really remember the age. I just know that I felt very young of mind and I originally looked at Archie comics as the first thing and I enjoyed the relationships.
Jughead was actually my favorite of the characters and Veronica. And then eventually I started seeing DC Comics. I remember I just loved Batman. I liked his darkness and once I met Catwoman, it was like I found myself in the comics.
MARK BRODIE: So what was it about Catwoman that really spoke to you that really made you almost find like your comic book soulmate here?
TODD: She's so powerful and she's smarter than people give her credit for because she has beauty, so people assume that she is not intelligent. And she uses that to her advantage. It's, oh, if you see me looking like this, you're going to make these assumptions and think you have power over me. Well, I know that I have power over you, and I will use that to my advantage.
BRODIE: How did that speak to you in your life? Like, is that a mindset that you try to use in your life?
TODD: You're asking for my secrets. I know that beauty can be disarming to certain people, and that unfortunately, there are judgments made on people based upon the way they look. And yes, that is a tool in certain circumstances. Part of it has to do with my acting career as well. I know that if you project a certain image as a character, you get a different response than if you go at it in another direction and that women who come at something as smart first do not receive the same response that someone who comes at it as pretty first.
BRODIE: That's really interesting and as you say, in the case of Catwoman, you don't necessarily know right up front what her level of intelligence is or what her level of savviness is. You really especially in a comic book, it's really just visual, right?
TODD: All you know is she's attractive. And in the first iteration of Catwoman, Batman let her go. Mister, I am going to abide by the rules and always turn in the bad guy. He just let her go.
BRODIE: One of the things I thought was so interesting in the essay that you wrote was comparing Batman and Catwoman to a character from Sherlock Holmes, many, many, many years before Batman was even a twinkle in anybody's eye.
TODD: Right, and I actually learned something going through that experience because I had seen the Irene Adler that was in the BBC Sherlock and she was a dominatrix and she was bisexual, and she had all of this charisma that she used to disarm Sherlock, who is a master detective. And I'm looking at her saying it seems like they're taking from Catwoman to create this version of the character, but the more research I did into it, the more I saw that the original Catwoman seemed very much to be drawn from Irene Adler because of the way they were introduced.
It's just if you go case by case. There were just certain elements, beats that were hit in both of their introductory stories, that can't be coincidence. And so in essence that Sherlock version. You know, it's like come full circle now. It's like Catwoman was based on Irene, and this Irene is based on Catwoman and this is by far my favorite iteration of Irene Adler because of that.
BRODIE: Well, I'm so curious about that because when you started learning, especially about Catwoman and Batman, it was in a comic book. It was like a two-dimensional thing. So I'm curious how it worked for you to go from that to watching these characters come to life on screen and in the case of Catwoman watching several different versions of her played by different actors on screen.
TODD: Yes, and I have seen every version of the characters and I, they don't all speak to me. And in particular, the one that was based on the Catwoman movie, that was just awful. For one, it wasn't Selina Kyle, so it's not even the same Catwoman, but that was an atrocity because she didn't use any of the Catwoman skills, like her skill set. They just made her like a cat person. Who couldn't separate herself from the animal, and that to me is not honoring the character, and I, that hurt me as a Catwoman fan. I just, to see that that even was allowed to happen and what we could have had was the Michelle Pfeiffer Catwoman in her own movie. That does not follow the comics exactly.
So it's not that I'm a purist. She's my favorite version of Catwoman, and by and far they like that they took a lot of license with her creation and with her motivations. But again, she was using this to embrace her power and she became an entirely different woman once she took on the cat persona.
BRODIE: What did you learn about each of the characters, Catwoman and Irene Adler by watching the other on screen or in the case of Catwoman on the pages of the comics and then doing the research you did into some of the similarities and how the the writers may be borrowed from each other to create these characters.
TODD: There was a lot of entanglements when it came to as with anybody. Once you start dealing with relationships, things get messy, right? Like just the example of Batman letting her go, but she also changed because of her encounters with Batman. Irene changed because of her encounters with Sherlock.
She's dealing with someone who does respect her brain. So, OK, at first, he got caught up because of the way she looked, but the respect that they have for these women isn't about their bodies, isn't about their beauty, it's about their brains, and that affects them and the way that they carry on.
BRODIE: Let me ask you about this anthology altogether, which is basically making the argument that comics are more than just comic books, right? It's high art. There is a relationship between comic books and other forms of literature. What speaks to you about that concept?
TODD: Well, to be fair, any art form has the potential to be phenomenal or trash. And our argument is comic books are on par with any other art form such as that, and that many are discarded or disregarded as forms of high art because it's newer art. One day, you know, in the distant future, people are going to look back on some of the comic books that have come out and realize they are actually art.
BRODIE: Do you think that comics are seen even today as sort of a lesser form of art?
TODD: Definitely. And even so in the movie industry, you see that some of the great directors are criticizing comic book movies. There have been some horrible comic book movies, but there have been some tremendously amazing, powerful movies that happen to be based in comic book worlds, and they're still touching on human emotions and passion and love and fear. And just all of the things that make us human.
