The Phoenix Police Department was already in the spotlight before the story of Tyron McAlpin broke last week. The Black man is deaf and has cerebral palsy. Now there is a video of him being beaten and tasered by police in August that is making national headlines.
This comes as the Phoenix Police Department is dealing with the aftermath of a scathing report from the Department of Justice that found a pattern of practice of excessive force and discrimination against people of color.
City leaders are trying to work with the DOJ to avoid being put under federal oversight now. But for Greg Moore, it is put up or shut up time for Black leaders here — and for anyone who stands against racism, for that matter.
Moore is a columnist for the Arizona Republic, and he joined The Show to talk more about it.
Full conversation
LAUREN GILGER: Greg, I want to start with your reaction to this video from Phoenix PD body camera. You say in the column here that you wrote about this that you do not think anything will change, even though you’re making this call to Black leaders. Tell us why.
GREG MOORE: Well, it’s not just a Black leaders, but I’m starting with them because it’s happening with their community. But I’m calling out anybody — anybody who feels like they’re not a racist, anybody who feels like everybody should be judged by the content of their character, anybody who feels like people are inherently equal and that race is a social construct in that race is not something we should use to judge people.
I’m calling everybody out because I’m dealing with a sense of resignation that’s actually overwhelming my frustration. Usually these sorts of things happen, and I get angry, and I want to make change. And now I’m just like, “Yep, that's about what happens out here.”
GILGER: Wow. So you talk about the history of this as well. And some of the other cases with specifically Phoenix PD that have reminded you of this.
MOORE: Yeah. I mean, if you want to just keep it strictly to Phoenix PD,right? But George Floyd’s family was calling for an investigation. Well, Dion Johnson was killed the same day George Floyd was, and that was that was a state trooper.
There was a kid, 17-year-old kid got killed by a police officer. His name was Amarion Hope. I don’t think anybody even knows his name.
And we can go all the way back to Michelle Cusseaux in 2014. That was Phoenix PD. She had a disability. She was, I believe, bipolar and schizophrenic. And was kind of having an episode in her own home. Police tried to enter after having been called. She wouldn’t let them in, and they kind of barged their way in. She was inside holding a hammer and sort of a threatening way, and they just shot her dead. And that was in 2014.
And in the interim, we’ve had this federal investigation. And I just wonder, why is it that Black people tend to get shot so much in confrontations that could otherwise be de-escalated? Why does that keep happening?
And the only parallel that I can draw on the cases is that they are Black, and the officers are not. And it makes me wonder whether Black people are seen as human or as somehow some way not deserving of normal, everyday average considerations. Don’t shoot them. Wait for them to calm down. Don’t shoot them. Figure out another way. I just don't know.
We’ll see if anything changes. I’m not expecting it.
GILGER: Resignation is an interesting term you use there. So Greg, let’s talk about this in light of what’s happening with the Phoenix PD and the DOJ right now. As I said, the mayor, several city leaders have said they do not want what’s called a consent decree here. They don’t want to be under federal oversight for an untold number of years. They can take a long time, cost a lot of money.
What’s your reaction to that, though? They think — and Phoenix PD has said a lot recently that they can kind of do it on their own — that they are already making the changes needed.
MOORE: Well, so I get that. And just think about it in just normal everyday terms. Let’s say you had your kids in school and they were having some troubles and somebody said, “Well, I’m going to take over your child rearing, and everything you do you have to report to me and you have to fill out forms and you have to come in for meetings.”
It’s burdensome. It’s frustrating. It’s embarrassing. It probably is costly. And I can understand why anybody who was in that kind of situation wouldn’t want that. But what else are we going to do?
The Phoenix PD, that report showed patterns and practices of abuses against Black people, Latinos, Native Americans. It showed that abuse was pervasive. It showed lots of problems that, if you’ve got a plan to fix it, then fix it. But if it’s not getting fixed, something must be done.
So two things are true. I understand where police and city leaders are coming from. I probably wouldn’t want that either if I were in a similar situation. But this isn’t working, so something needs to be done.
GILGER: So, Greg, I think an interesting point you make in this column is that you say you can support police and oppose police brutality, which seems to be a dichotomy many people are having trouble striking these days, especially in the political spectrum.
We heard from the major police union PLEA last week as well, saying that these charges — which have now been dropped against Tyron McAlpin — should not have been, that this was an example of bias against police, that the officers were just defending themselves against an attack from him.
I wonder how you think that’s possible in this day and age today, saying that we can do both of these things.
MOORE: So the only way it’s going to work is if reasonable people all stand up and everybody says, “Hey guys, this isn’t working.” If the afflicted community is the only community raising a fuss, then there’s not going to be much change. And so really, I’m wondering where all the allies are right now. I’m wondering where are the Black leaders to galvanize those allies?
And I think that too much in our society, but particularly in our politics and this issue has become political. We’re all or nothing. And I just don’t think that that’s the right way to be. It doesn’t seem to me unreasonable at all to say, “Yes, we need police. Yes, it’s a hard job. Yes, it’s a dangerous job. Let’s make it easier for them to do their jobs.”
But also, let’s make sure they’re actually protecting the communities. I wasn’t there when the McAlpin thing happened, obviously. I’d love to hear more of the police side of it. The problem is, when I hear the police sides of things, they sound so similar that I don’t trust the answer. It sounds like a doctored answer. Maybe from a lawyer, maybe from a union.
“Oh, he was posing a threat. He was really strong.” And I just don’t believe it anymore, because I’ve heard it so many times in so many cases, in so many ways. Please forgive the frustration in my voice. I’m thinking about the Mike Brown case. It was the first time I can recall hearing some of these descriptions. But how could it possibly be the same thing so often? I just don’t trust or believe the answer.
And so I do think it is totally reasonable to say we need police. Police serve a valuable function. We appreciate what they’re doing for us. But sometimes it goes too far, and that’s what we have to stop. I don’t see it as an all-or-nothing proposition.
