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As election words get louder, Arizona's poet laureate finds 'an edge in the middle'

 Alberto Ríos
Arizona State University
Alberto Ríos

Evidence of this fall’s election is all around us — signs along the roads we drive, text messages on our phones, ads on our TV’s, brochures in our mailboxes, stories on our public radio stations.

But Alberto Ríos, Arizona’s Poet Laureate, wants us to think about politics and the election a little differently. Ríos joined The Show to talk about the role of poetry in the world of politics.

Full conversation

MARK BRODIE: Alberto, how do you see poetry relative to how people think about politics and elections?

ALBERTO RÍOS: Well, I think that’s a really good question, because it’s hard to know what the impact of words is. We’re being bombarded by so many words and some of them are sincere, some are not. And so words are an act of confusion these days. And I don’t know how that helps us as citizens. I don’t know how that helps us as human beings.

It’s simply true, though. The impact of words has changed. And when I first thought about political poetry, the impact of it, it was when I read the preface of Pablo Neruda’s last book, in which he said — and I laughed when I first read it, but it has stayed with me. He said, “Only the poets are capable of putting tyranny against the wall and riddling it with the most deadly tercets.”

He was talking about Nixon at the time. So he was saying, poets, it’s words that are powerful, and we shouldn’t forget that. That has in some ways simply been turned around, and the tercets now are bouncing off.

And so what I think our remedy to that is — and I think it’s the remedy that’s always been an act of the humanities, through the centuries — I think the best job of a poem is to move you from where you’re standing or sitting to what you’re feeling.

BRODIE: Do you think about the words you’re using when you’re writing poems that either are or could be construed as political differently than when you’re writing poems about other subjects?

RÍOS: Sure, I do. And I think sometimes it’s an act of kindness that I have to recognize that sometimes I come from a generation that might easily use words that right now would be inappropriate. And so in those moments, I stop myself. And I think that’s a political act, but it's an act of progression. I’ve changed. I’ve moved. And so I do think about it that way.

And then when I think about politics, as you’re probably asking me, I do think about them. And I’m always looking for an edge. But my favorite thing — and I say this to my students all the time — is to find the edge in the middle.

An edge at the edges, everybody goes there. That’s where all of the newscasters go. You know, it’s on TV. But an edge in the middle, what’s right in front of you, I think that’s the real place where we’re going to find answers.

BRODIE: How do you think that poetry maybe impacts people, especially as they’re thinking about politics or thinking about elections or political issues, maybe differently than other forms of literature or words? You mentioned we’re being bombarded by words coming at us from all places, at all times. What place do you think poetry has in this world that maybe other kinds of words and other media don’t have?

RÍOS: Personal persuasiveness. I’m not sure it’s going to affect a large group all at once. It’s one-on-one.

BRODIE: Have you found that you have written poems specifically about political issues or about politics, that you’ve had in your mind what you think it means, and someone has read it and come to you and talked about it, and they’ve taken it like 180 degrees from what you intended?

RÍOS: Oh, sure. Oh, sure. I think I’ve had that example with maybe the title poem from my last book. And I’ve thought about writing that poem for a long time, and it has been read now — I’ve, I’ve heard different interpretations of it as people have seen a need to define it. Along their lives.

BRODIE: That’s interesting. So we have a couple poems of yours here. Can I ask you to read one? It’s called “The Everywhere Border.” Of course, border security. Immigration is such a big issue in this election, on the federal level, the state level. I’d love to hear what you have to say on this one.

RÍOS: Yeah. Politics right now, it’s such a big buzzword. It’s everywhere. It’s in the news. But, you know, that’s not politics. Politics is the everyday. It’s how do we get streets done? And how do we get people to come to this or that? And how about parks? So it is for me, it’s looking for that everyday thing again, right?

I grew up on the border. I was born in Nogales. And I was born and raised there without realizing I was formed there. That is to say, it was a time of multiple languages, multiple foods, all sorts of things. And it was only when I grew up a little bit — let’s say college — that I had to start putting a line through the middle of it.

And, you know, we think of the border wall. We want to make it bigger and bigger. Well, you know, I never grew up that way. When I think of what was called the Spanish-English dictionary, it sounded like that was just one thing. Spanish English.

And so this poem comes out of my personal feelings about the border. I live in Phoenix now, and you’d think that’s far away from the border, but it’s not.

The Everywhere Border

When I have to choose each time, every day,
How to say something, I am living the border.

When I remember the taste of Don Chuy’s carne machaca with onions,
Fresh tortillas, and the buzz of the flies in the air, I am living the border.

When I drive my car from Phoenix to Nogales, as I move
Between mile and kilometer signs, I am living the border.

When I see la Virgen de Guadalupe painted on a wall
Next to stars and stripes, I am living the border.

When I see a tall cactus standing beside a concrete wall,
Two landscapes arm-wrestling, I am living the border.

All of this, and more, and more after that. In words,
Two of everything weighs more.

The border I know is not a place, but a feeling, a life—
A choosing every day. The border is everywhere.

BRODIE: And as you say, this is very personal and very sort of everyday life. This is not talking about immigration policy or walls or anything. This is about a place that people can be at any time.

RÍOS: That’s right. This is how you live the life everybody else is talking about who’s never shown up or been there. I agree with you. This is personal. And it’s how you get through all of those big words that other people are using.

If I had said “Immigration is bad” or this, that or the other, who’s going to listen to me? That’s what the news is all doing, but a story or something closer to home or something personal, shared has meaning.

BRODIE: How do you choose what specifically you want to write about when it comes to political issues or politics in general?

RÍOS: I never choose, I let it come to me.

BRODIE: It chooses you.

RÍOS: Yeah, it chooses me. We’ve heard that in the past. But I think now, after all these years of living and all these years of writing and so on, things just come to you. You’re affected by something and you want to say something about it, but not in a way that you can predict.

KJZZ's The Show transcripts are created on deadline. This text is edited for length and clarity, and may not be in its final form. The authoritative record of KJZZ's programming is the audio record.

Mark Brodie is a co-host of The Show, KJZZ’s locally produced news magazine. Since starting at KJZZ in 2002, Brodie has been a host, reporter and producer, including several years covering the Arizona Legislature, based at the Capitol.
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