The Oakland Zoo in California is relocating its last remaining African elephant, Osh, to the Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee later this year. And it’s just the latest zoo to do it.
In the last few decades, dozens of zoos have closed their elephant exhibits — a movement that’s being cheered by animal activists who say there’s growing recognition that intelligent and social animals like elephants don’t belong in zoos. The Phoenix Zoo has one elephant in its exhibit — Indu.
Mickey Pardo, an elephant biologist and behavior ecologist who has studied both Asian elephants and African elephants in the wild, has groundbreaking research that found every elephant likely has its own name.
Pardo joined The Show to discuss why he thinks more zoos should move their elephants out.
Full conversation with Mikey Pardo
MICKEY PARDO: I grew up going to the zoo all the time, and I loved it, and the reason why I loved it is because I loved wild animals, you know, I love being able to see them, and so, you know, any kind of opportunity to to interact with them in any way was something that I really enjoyed.
But, as I started learning more, especially, you know, as I started getting involved in studying wild animals professionally, I started learning and realizing that there simply is no way for certain animals, including elephants, to be kept in a zoo in a way that provides them with a good quality of life. And it's not, that's not to say that the zoos don't, or the zookeepers don't care about the elephants that they're caring for and want them to have a good life. It's just not something that's within their power to provide, given the inherent limitations on a zoo environment.
LAUREN GILGER: So, so let me ask you about your own work and its role in this, because you've done some pretty groundbreaking work on elephants in the wild and how basically you discovered that it seems like they each have individual names that they call each other. Talk a little bit about how elephants live in the wild, how intelligent and emotionally intelligent they seem to be.
PARDO: Yeah, so, for all species of elephants, they have a large number of social relationships, and they have different social relationships with different individuals, and they all have this, what we call fission-fusion dynamics in their society. So, they come together and then split apart, and then come back together, and split apart, depending on the environmental conditions and and just on what they want to do in a particular moment.
So, they're often out of sight of their social companions, and that was that was kind of the impetus for why I thought that they might have something like a name and why I started that study, because it seems that given their social structure, it would be particularly beneficial for them to be able to address communication to a specific individual when they're out of sight of each other. But, their social relationships really form the basis of their life in the wild, and that's a big part of the reason why we think they've evolved such large brains and exceptional cognitive abilities. So for example, they have the ability to keep maybe up 30 or more pieces of information in their working memory at once, which is remarkable because for humans, the average is seven.
GILGER: Smarter than us in some ways, wow.
PARDO: Yeah, in that way, specifically.
GILGER: Yeah, so an elephant living in a zoo, right, and especially an elephant living in a zoo alone, which happens in some places, that's the case at the Phoenix Zoo right now. What are they not getting that you think they need, that they would get in the wild?
PARDO: Well, when you think about elephants who are housed alone specifically, it's very closely analogous to humans who are held in solitary confinement, right? This is something we have in common with elephants, that we're both highly social species, and when we don't have the opportunity for normal social behavior, it has a profoundly negative psychological impact on us.
So, one thing that we see in zoo elephants, and this is true of elephants regardless of whether they're held alone or in small social groups in zoos, they tend to exhibit stereotypical behaviors, repetitive movements that don't really serve any adaptive purpose, and they result from when an individual's brain is basically bombarded with excessively high levels of stress hormones, glucocorticoids. We see this in humans who are held in solitary confinement in prisons. We also see it, one study found that 80% of the elephants that they observed across, they looked at dozens of zoos and they found 80% of the elephants that they observed exhibited stereotypical behaviors.
GILGER: So you have advocated for zoos to release their elephants. What are the other options? Like, they can't go back in the wild, they're given to sanctuaries instead, right?
PARDO: Right, so in, in most cases it wouldn't be logistically feasible to return elephants to the wild. So, the other option is to send elephants to sanctuaries. And obviously, sanctuaries are still a form of captivity, but one major difference between sanctuaries and zoos is the amount of space, right? So, the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, I believe that their minimum requirement for elephants is 0.12 acres per individual. In most zoos in North America, the total size of the elephant exhibit is less than 2 acres, maybe around maybe 2 acres at most, there are a couple that are more than that.
Now, in sanctuaries, it's gonna be a lot less than what some elephants experience in the wild. But, for example, there's an elephant sanctuary in Tennessee, and they have something like 3,000 acres on their property, right? So, that's actually the size of the smaller end of wild natural home ranges in elephants, and having a larger habitat gives elephants the opportunity to walk more, which gives them exercise, helps reduce some of the physical ailments that they suffer from in zoos, and it also provides them with a much more varied environment. So, they have the opportunity to forage more naturally, to split apart from each other rather than constantly being in each other's presence as they're forced to be in zoos, and it allows for larger group sizes, so, so elephants can have a slightly more natural social environment.
GILGER: I want to ask you about the underlying issue here that you're getting at, right? Like this you frame it as an issue of liberty, right? Like, you talk in your piece about how courts are granting legal rights to other nonhuman entities, like rivers, or forests or corporations, but that is not the case for animals. You think, maybe they should have that kind of level, it sounds like, of liberty under the law and respect?
PARDO: Absolutely. So I, and I think this applies to many other animal species, not just elephants. So, the issue for me here is how do we decide who gets rights, right? Like, historically, rights have unfortunately been limited to a small subset of the human population, right? Like, in the United States for a long time, women didn't have the right to vote, non-white people didn't have the right to vote, and it took courts quite a while to decide that. Yes, black people are people under the law. Women are people under the law. Native Americans are people under the law, that we didn't used to, you know, this, this country and many other countries didn't used to expand the definition of person, even to all humans.
So why do we think that all humans deserve rights? And I think that really what it boils down to is the ability to have feelings, right? When somebody has feelings, they're, they're sentient, they can suffer, they can feel joy. To me, that's the point at which that individual needs to have certain legal rights, and I think that applies to many non-human animals as well. And I think the evidence is abundant that many animals are far more intelligent and emotionally complex than we've ever realized. And I think with that growing scientific understanding, our society needs to evolve to the point where we include these individuals within our moral circle and recognize that they should all have the same, basic legal protections for life and liberty and that kind of thing.
GILGER: That's fascinating. Let me ask you lastly, Mickey, about the broader context here, specifically when it comes to zoos and elephants, right? Like, we are seeing more zoos around the country and around the world release their elephants. Do you think that this is going to be the wave of the future, at least when it comes to this really intelligent and really beloved species?
PARDO: Yeah, I think so, or at least I hope so. I think we've seen, unfortunately, a lot of resistance from zoos to doing this. For some zoos, at least it, I'm sure that it boils down to money, that they bring in revenue from having these elephants, and they don't want to lose that. But I, you know, I'm just speculating here, I don't really know why there's been so much resistance. I just know that there has been a great deal of resistance, but I do hope that this is the way of the future that at some point we will see zoos evolve into institutions that focus on providing education, in a way that doesn't cause animals extreme suffering.
Full conversation with Dr. Gary West
So, what about that one elephant here at the Phoenix Zoo? Dr. Gary West, senior vice president of animal health and living collections at the Phoenix Zoo, says the folks there have talked about moving her to the Elephant Sanctuary. But, it’s not quite that simple for her. West joined The Show to talk about why.
GARY WEST: Well, Indu is a 59-year-old Asian elephant. She's been at the Phoenix Zoo, about 20 years. She's quirky, in a good way. She has certain people she really, really loves. She has a greater one-horned rhinoceros, Chutti, that you've probably seen at the zoo, who she also really loves.
Historically, she's not been a big fan of other elephants. You know, prior to coming here, she was not a big fan of being with other elephants at the Houston Zoo, and then they were hoping when she came here, and it was prior to my time, there was hope she would integrate with two retired circus elephants. And then there was also an elephant here that was sort of famous for painting named Ruby, at the time, and she wasn't a big, big fan, and she was even, even to the point where she was aggressive toward the other elephants and so she really prefers not to be with other elephants.
She really adores some of her keepers, really looks forward to seeing some of them. I would say she's just, she's a lovely old lady, very loved by her keepers and the veterinary staff here at the Phoenix Zoo.
GILGER: So, you explained a little bit about why she is alone in the exhibit. Let me ask you a little bit about some of the broader context we're having this conversation, and right now we're seeing a lot of zoos, dozens around the country, close their elephant exhibits because of concerns that, I mean, basically that they're not good for the elephants, that they can't kind of live full lives, they tend to die prematurely, they need to be in more social environments. What do you make of those arguments and sort of the broader conversation that's happening about elephants in zoos right now?
WEST: You know, we've had those discussions internally. I think, you know, the Association of Zoos and Aquarium accredited zoos, like Phoenix Zoo, we're always looking for all of our animals to strive for optimum welfare. And so, what is that for an elephant? Well, there's certainly social aspects and there's management aspects, and I think zoos, you know, once they're starting to get down to maybe one or two elephants and they're looking at, you know, should we phase elephants out for the future? I would say on the flip side there's some, some zoos that have made huge investments into elephant exhibits and elephant management and the social needs of elephants.
So, you know, not all zoos are doing that, but for some zoos, it's the right way to go is to say, “Hey, we're, we're probably not meeting optimal welfare for this elephant or our last couple of elephants.” And so, you know, the Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee may be a good option to send these animals.
GILGER: Yeah, and we're seeing zoos decide to do that, as you say. Talk a little bit about the care of an elephant like Indu and what kind of connection she can have with her human caregivers, as opposed to having sort of a social environment with other elephants.
WEST: We have five keepers and an elephant manager, basically take care of three animals in that area right now, so she has a lot of social interaction with keepers. She gets a lot of individualized care. She gets a lot of specialized care, behavioral enrichment. You know, she's a 59-year-old elephant, so she's, you know, got stiff joints and some other medical issues, and so she gets things like laser therapy on her joints, she gets hydrotherapy on her joints.
You know, I, this is probably a bold statement. I've worked with elephants for about 25 years in captivity, and I would say she gets the most individualized specialized care that I've ever seen an elephant get.
GILGER: That's really interesting. Do you think, Gary, that an elephant like this can live a kind of full life in the same way as she might in the wild, or in a sanctuary setting, in a zoo setting, even though, you know, she, she can't be around other elephants, it seems like, do those human interactions, does that level of care make up for it?
WEST: I think it does again, you know, it's, it's my personal opinion and it's subjective, and of course we all love elephants and we all want elephants to socialize with other elephants and those attempts have been made with her. She has chosen that that's not something she's interested in. And so, we have discussed, you know, I think that the sanctuary option, the Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee is a great facility. I know the chief operating officer personally, I've known him for 30 years. And I think it's a great facility.
So we've talked about that. Our hesitancy is with her age and her underlying health issues. I don't know that that would be a good option for her as far as a long trip. It's not a simple thing. It's not a simple logistic thing, to move an elephant that far. And some elephants, unfortunately, have made that long trek and then and then have passed away shortly after arrival there. So, those sorts of things also weigh in our mind of sending her so far, and then will she really want to socialize or interact? Are you taking away from the people and other things that she's used to and loves?
So, you know, again, it's opinions and it can be a bit subjective, but we also look at welfare through objective assessments, and so we do that on a regular basis. You know, does she seem to interact? Does she seem to move around? Does she seem, you know, happy and satisfied? Are we providing optimal welfare for her? And we feel like we are.
GILGER: So, what are the plans for the elephant exhibit at the zoo, once Indu does pass. Because this is, as you say, she's old.
WEST: Yeah, so currently we have Chutti. I mentioned her buddy next door is a greater one-horned rhinoceros, and then we are acquiring two more young male greater one-horned rhinoceros. So, we are not planning to exhibit more Asian elephants in that current space. We are going to be converting that to greater one-horned rhinoceros, which lives solitarily, and they are going to be occupying those exhibits.
GILGER: So, you will discontinue the elephant exhibit at the Phoenix Zoo at some point there?
WEST: The current one, yes. You know, we haven't had a lot of internal discussions about what the future holds, but, you know, we've had some high-level discussions, if we got back into elephants down the road, you know, African elephants probably would be a better fit for the desert and for our climate, but it would take a huge investment. And we'd have to look at space and where that would be at the zoo or on the property of the zoo. So, that's just been sort of a pie-in-the-sky discussion, but there really isn't any plans for elephants right now.
