KJZZ is a service of Rio Salado College,
and Maricopa Community Colleges

Copyright © 2025 KJZZ/Rio Salado College/MCCCD
Play Live Radio
Next Up:
0:00
0:00
0:00 0:00
Available On Air Stations

E-books are becoming more and more popular. That's causing problems for public libraries

The Burton Barr Library.
Bridget Dowd/KJZZ
The Burton Barr Library.

E-books are becoming more and more popular, and many readers like to get them from their local libraries. But, in communities across the country, that’s causing problems for those libraries.

Caitlin Schmidt, editor and publisher at Tucson Spotlight, has been looking into the situation in Pima County and joined The Show to discuss what are libraries there finding in terms of the popularity of e-books.

Full conversation

MARK BRODIE: What are libraries there finding in terms of popularity of e-books? It seems like they’re becoming maybe more popular than checking out actual physical books.

CAITLIN SCHMIDT: Yeah, it definitely seems like that. And this year or last year in 2024, digital loans, which are e-books and audio books and that stuff, outpaced physical loans by about 2.8 million to about 2.2. So a little more than half a million more checkouts for digital this year.

BRODIE: And this is causing it sounds like some financial concerns for those libraries in the sense that e-books can in some ways be more expensive for those libraries to get right?

SCHMIDT: Yes, they are almost always more expensive for libraries to get. The American Library Association reported that libraries pay about $55 for a copy of an e-book for use for two years, whereas you or I could purchase that same e-book for perpetual use for like 15 bucks. So they really mark them up and they limit the time use. And some publishers are also limiting the number of times that can be checked out. So for with Harper Collins for example, after 26 loans, the e-book essentially self-destructs and the library has to purchase it all over again at whatever price it’s at, at that point in time, which actually could be more.

BRODIE: Well so how are the libraries trying to deal with this? Because as we discussed, the popularity of this kind of book is going up, but so is the cost.

SCHMIDT: Yeah, so I mean, they’ve had they found themselves having to cap checkouts, at certain times, both in terms of holds and how many e-copies you can download at a time. And I think, you know, awareness is something else they’re trying to do. I will admit, prior to my interview with the library, I had been guilty of checking out audio books on my Libby app and maybe not finishing them and letting them lapse. And now that I know that, that costs the library every time, and that’s a hit against them, I won’t be doing that anymore.

I’m actually buying my ebooks and audiobooks now. So I think getting the word out to people that, “hey, they’re not paying the same price that we are, and they also don’t get to use them forever,”  I think is key.

Caitlin Schmidt
Caitlin Schmidt
Caitlin Schmidt

BRODIE: Yeah. I mean, what does the library and what do librarians say about whether or not this model is sustainable? Like, at some point, are they just going to have to say to people, “look, if you want to read this on your kindle or on an app, you’re just going to have to buy it yourself?”

SCHMIDT: You know, I think people that work in the library space are really dedicated to making sure that libraries continue to be a place of equity. So I think that’s going to be a move of last resort. But what we are seeing here in Pima County, and we heard about last August, is that libraries don’t have enough staff for all of their physical locations anymore. And so they’re talking about cutting down hours and closing them. And so, I mean, I think the move to digital space is really impacting them all over.

You know, libraries are still a gathering place, but they also need to be able to pay for their services and that’s including the e-books. So they didn’t have any firm plans about what they’re doing. Right now, Pima County Library spends about 50% of their material budget on e-books versus physical books. Whereas a lot of other libraries are at 60% for digital books. So not sure what’s going to happen with us with that one just yet. 

BRODIE: Yeah. I wonder if there’s a situation and again, you know, if the library hasn’t quite figured out what their plan is. But I wonder if, you know, like for most libraries, if not all, you have a certain number of books you can check out at a time, physical books. I wonder if maybe libraries are thinking about saying, okay, each user, each library card holder can, you know, check out X number of maybe e-books or digital copies per quarter, per year or something like that as a way to, as you say, make sure that these libraries continue to be places of equity where everybody has some kind of access to the materials that they want.

SCHMIDT: Right, yeah and right now they cap our library at least caps how many you can have checked out at a time, but, you know, you can have X number of 10, 20 checked out at a time for the entire year. So it would make more sense to move to a model of you can check out four titles a month or 18 titles a year or something like that. 

BRODIE: Yeah. Is this the kind of thing that some communities, some library systems have already figured out? That for example, the Pima County Library could look to, you know, community acts and say, okay, this is what they’re doing, and it seems to be working. Maybe we could adopt something like that.

SCHMIDT: I mean, they certainly can. And I think that there’s a lot of research going on in that space. Libraries across the United States and here in Pima County too are in a little bit of a crisis. When that draft report leaked in August about their plan to close some libraries, the community here really was up in arms about it. And so they backed off and started some public input.

So I think they’re doing a lot of research about what’s being done in other communities and what they can possibly do to you know, keep offering the same level of service that they have in the past. But I think this digital loaning thing just really crept up on everyone. They told me that prior to the pandemic, digital loans made up about 16% of their checkouts, and now it’s more than 50% in a really short amount of time. So I just don’t think anyone, any one of the libraries knew how to handle this surge. 

BRODIE: Yeah. Well, does it seem as though there’s any hope for some kind of compromise, maybe between publishers and libraries to reduce the cost in some way, to make them more cost effective for libraries to have?

SCHMIDT: It actually does not seem like that’s going to happen. There was just a lawsuit that four major publishers filed against the Internet Archive, for a practice called Controlled Digital Lending. Pima County Library wasn’t doing this, but a lot of other libraries were, and that allowed them to scan physical copies of the books that it had in its possession. And they could lend those out on a 1 to 1 ratio.

So if somebody wanted to check out the digital copy of that CDL book, they would pull the physical copy from circulation and then vice versa the same way. But it just went all the way up to the second circuit who sided with publishers and said that, that’s not fair use. So libraries can no longer scan and lend out books that they physically don’t own anymore. So it seemed like this was a backup step. And it does not seem like publishers want to make this easier on libraries. 

BRODIE: So you spoke with the director of Pima County Public Libraries. I mean, what does she say they’re looking at? What does she say they’re maybe looking to do? I mean, because as we’ve talked about like this current model does not seem like it can last forever.

SCHMIDT: Right. You know, I mean, this is they’re in a look and see pattern right now with all things that the Pima County Library. And I think that this digital open space is just one of the areas they’re looking at. I think their priority right now is to figure out how to not close branches. Even though, some of these libraries really need some serious, like, structural repair work. I know that the downtown branch has issues with the elevator. It’s so old they can’t even buy the parts for it anymore. So, I think unfortunately, digital loans are not at the front of their mind.

But, you know, I think they’re going to have to deal with it. I’m in a few book clubs, and most people bring their Kindles with them, or their phones these days instead of the physical copies of books. And a lot of people that I know are checking them out from the library. So, I hope that they can find something that’s happening in another community or, maybe get the word out and have people donate to a digital loan fund or something.

But, I mean, these prices are just exorbitant and an e-book for, for you or from Harper Collins would cost $14, and for the library it’s $68. So I mean way, way up. 

KJZZ's The Show transcripts are created on deadline. This text is edited for length and clarity, and may not be in its final form. The authoritative record of KJZZ's programming is the audio record.

Mark Brodie is a co-host of The Show, KJZZ’s locally produced news magazine. Since starting at KJZZ in 2002, Brodie has been a host, reporter and producer, including several years covering the Arizona Legislature, based at the Capitol.
Related Content