The phrase “constitutional crisis” is everywhere right now, as experts and pundits try to parse whether or not we are headed toward — or already are in one. This, as President Trump continues to bulldoze his way through his first months in office, shattering norms and pushing the limits of executive power.
From trying to get rid of birthright citizenship, to revoking millions in federal funding, to allowing Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency to fire federal workers en masse, it’s been state Attorneys General who have largely served as the backstop to the Trump administration’s wishes in court — at least so far.
Here in Arizona, Democratic Attorney General Kris Mayes has become a major voice of resistance, as she files lawsuit after lawsuit to stop what she calls Trump’s illegal actions. But, does she think those lawsuits will serve as a true check on this administration’s attempts to expand executive power? Or does she think a constitutional crisis is on the horizon?
Mayes joined The Show to discuss.
Full conversation
KRIS MAYES: I genuinely believe that our country has never been in a more dangerous position than we are now, at least since the Civil War. And I don’t say that lightly.
As you know, I have called what’s going on in Washington, D.C., right now with Elon Musk’s infiltration of the Treasury Department and so many other agencies unlawfully, I call it a coup because it is. And they continue to violate federal court orders.
When we get court orders to stop Elon Musk and the president. They have violated those. That is a coup. And I deeply believe it’s my job to stand up to it.
LAUREN GILGER: We are a state, though, that that voted for Donald Trump in pretty big numbers in November. I wonder what you would say to folks who say, “This is what Arizonans voted for. This is what they want. Why are you getting in the way?”
MAYES: So you are right that Arizona went for Trump. I do not believe that Arizonans, when they voted for Donald Trump, believed that they were getting a president who was going to shred the Constitution. I don’t think Arizonans voted for chaos.
I know Arizonans did not want to see the kinds of mass, indiscriminate firings of federal employees that we are seeing. They just fired firefighters across Arizona, including in Payson. Hotshots and support staff were fired right before fire season.
We have seen a loss of critical services. The Grand Canyon. So many people were laid off at the Grand Canyon that we’re hearing about wait times of three and four hours just to get into the canyon, not to mention the public safety aspects of that plus the firefighters.
We know that when Donald Trump engaged — or tried to engage before I stopped him, along with other AGS in the federal funding freeze — they were going to defund our efforts to go after the Mexican drug cartels and stop fentanyl from coming across the border.
And so, no, I do not believe Arizonans voted for all of that. And I think we’re starting to see that. We certainly have seen it here in my office in the form of hundreds of phone calls into my office from Arizonans objecting to what President Trump is doing.
GILGER: So then let’s talk about maybe what is the phrase of the month or the week or whatever it may be, which is “constitutional crisis,” right? You have filed lawsuit after lawsuit, joined on to lawsuit after lawsuit challenging these actions by the Trump administration.
But a lot of folks are concerned that this administration will not respect the will of the courts. It seems like they have so far largely complied with those decisions. But do you think this kind of constitutional crisis is where we’re headed?
MAYES: So unfortunately, I think we are, and I think we actually already are at that point, which is why I continue to call it a coup. They have violated at least one, if not more, of the (temporary restraining orders), Trump was already found guilty of violating our federal funding freeze TRO. We had to go back, as you know, to get essentially a contempt motion, a motion to compel against President Trump and Elon Musk in that case.
So we are at that point. That is a crisis when a president violates a federal judge’s order, when a president starts saying things like, “Maybe we need to look at the judges.” When you have people in the administration like JD Vance, who made the stunning claim that judges don’t have the power to check executive overreach. That is an outright attack on the checks and balances that are enshrined in our Constitution.
It is an authoritarian mindset. It is dictatorial and it is dangerous. This is why our country was formed, Lauren. And so yeah, we have already seen the president step over that line, and we will continue to look at our options. The AGs talk about this almost every day, Lauren. We have a call.
GILGER: Right. So tell me what that means for not just you, but for AGs in general, the role that you outlined there. What does it mean for states’ rights?
MAYES: I think the states are going to have to come to terms with this, and we are looking at our options. And so that’s the conversation that we are having.
At the end of the day, many of these cases will land on the desks of the members of the United States Supreme Court, and they are going to have to decide whether or not we still have a country. They are going to have to decide whether or not they still support the Constitution, the separation of powers, the Appointments Clause, and whether or not they still support our form of government. And that is literally where this is headed.
GILGER: Let me ask you a question or two about the political side of this before I let you go. We are seeing other Democrats in our state and around the country move maybe more to the center as the Trump administration has come into power in light of the kind of political reality of what voters chose last year.
You seem to be taking a different approach. What are your thoughts there?
MAYES: Well, I guess I would disagree. I think it’s pretty centrist to support the Constitution. Frankly, there’s a whole lot of Republicans — and Lauren, as you know, I used to be one — who still believe in the Constitution, who still believe in the separation of powers. So, look, I’m maybe going back to my roots as someone who loves the Constitution and loves this country.
And I know Democrats do, too, and so do independents. This is about the rule of law and standing up for the rule of law. I don’t want to look back on my life and not know and believe that I did everything in my power to protect Arizonans and our Constitution.
GILGER: Do you worry about risking critical federal funding to Arizona by challenging the administration in this way?
MAYES: Well, we’re already losing a lot of critical federal funding and at risk of that if we don’t win these court orders. And I’ve saved — along with the other AGs — I saved Arizona hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars by fighting back against the federal funding freeze and getting a TRO against it.
I don’t think sitting back and sitting on our hands is an option at this point. We would lose so much more if we weren’t fighting for our Constitution and fighting back against these unconstitutional executive orders that are flying out of the white House every day.
