The U.S. Supreme Court heard arguments last week in a novel lawsuit brought by the Mexican government against major U.S. gun manufacturers. And they appeared on the verge of siding with the gunmakers.
Attorneys for the Mexican government argue that the manufacturers are deliberately profiting off of the illegal flow of guns into Mexico, fueling the cartels and extreme violence in their country.
However, Elvia Díaz, editorial page editor of the Arizona Republic, says Americans shouldn't get off scot-free. Díaz joined The Show to talk about why.
Full conversation
LAUREN GILGER: All right, so Mexico is trying kind of a new way of making the case, essentially, that America holds some responsibility for the cartel violence that they're experiencing in their country. The guns that fuel it, the drugs that it is about, right? They're seeking $10 billion in damages the Supreme Court justices, though, didn't look like they would be siding with them last week.
ELVIA DIÁZ: Yeah, that is correct. I mean, most Supreme Court justices were questioning: Why should the American gun manufacturers be responsible for what bad people do with their arms? Right? And they really don't want to open the can of worms, because then anyone here in the United States could sue gunmakers for, let's say, any killings or any mass shootings. And of course, we know that, unfortunately, that happens way too often here in the United States. So they did not seem likely to side with Mexico. And you know what? I think Mexico knows this, and I think they know it's a long shot. And from my perspective, they're just trying to make the argument — and desperately trying to make sure that Americans, ordinary Americans, know what is happening here in the United States. And also, if they are serious about stopping the flow of fentanyl and other drugs, as we keep hearing, then we here in America, need to take responsibility for it. So I think that's what they're trying to do, not necessarily get the $10 billion that they're asking for in damages. Since you know, they knew it was going to be an uphill battle.
GILGER: It’s really interesting. This also comes as Mexico is worried about potential tariffs from the U.S. Those have gone back and forth several times now. And as President Trump has designated Mexican cartels as foreign terrorists linked them to the Mexican government — something that the Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum calls offensive. Talk a little bit about the broader context of all of this.
DIÁZ: We know for a fact, there's absolutely no dispute that, you know, Mexico, along with China, is a leading source of fentanyl, which is a synthetic opioid that is incredibly potent, more so than heroin. And it's much easier to produce, and they smuggle that into the United States. And then we also know that here in the United States, a lot of people are dying because of fentanyl drug addiction. So Mexico is saying — and rightly so I think — that, yes, Mexico absolutely has a problem. And you know, the Mexican president argues that they are trying to go after the cartels and after the drug traffickers. But also asking that the United States takes responsibility for one, the drug addiction here in the United States, sort of the supply and demand, kind of free market, right? But also the fact that Mexico has one of the strictest laws, at least in the hemisphere, when it comes to firearms. I mean, there's absolutely no way that anyone in Mexico can buy a firearm legally, anyway. There is only one store in the entire country. Yet, the Mexican cartels seem, anyway, are better armed with American steel. So Mexico is arguing that, clearly, all the firearms are coming from the United States, and that gunmakers are specifically targeting and marketing to the drug cartels. And so, essentially, she's saying, take responsibility for it. You know, they point to 70% to 90% of the guns found on Mexican crime scenes come from the United States. So that's the overall argument. And we also know this is 2006 there had been nearly half a million Mexican related-killings because of drug trafficking.
GILGER: Right, right. President Trump has called, you know, the invasion at the southern border of migrants, an illegal invasion. [Sheinbaum ] calls it an illegal invasion of guns into her country. I want to also talk about the supply and demand thing that you brought up there. You argue that even if Trump hits the cartels hard, even if he can pressure the Mexican government, the Mexican government into doing that as well, this is about supply and demand. And a lot of that demand for the drugs that fuel all of this comes from America.
DIÁZ: And I wouldn't say a lot, I'll say most of it. The Mexican president is arguing that because Donald Trump designated the Mexican cartels as terrorists, she turned around and said that, well, in that case, the United States is aiding and abating terrorists. And so what are you going to do about it, right? So yes, most of the drugs you know, are coming to the United States because there's a demand for it. And I don't see people talking about that. Yes, you know, my point is go after the cartels. Absolutely, we do not want fentanyl on our streets here in America or any other type of drugs. We have seen how devastating it is. We have seen how many people are being overdosed just with one pill or two pills. And then that sad, right? But America and people here in the United States, they just don't care. And I see it with our readers, right? They just don't care to talk about that demand. So go after the cartels. Kill them all, however you want to put it. But as long as that demand is here, unfortunately, I believe the drugs will come from somewhere. So if it's not Mexico, they will turn to something else, just like every market, right? So we need to take responsibility here. And I can tell you, the readers of my columns get incredibly upset every time I mention this. And to me, that's very short sighted.
GILGER: That's really interesting. So you get a lot of pushback when you write about this? I mean —
DIÁZ: Oh, absolutely.
GILGER: The other side of this, right, is that without these drugs, and specifically without drugs as deadly as fentanyl, right, which has been so devastating as you describe, fewer people would be dying or addicted in the U.S.
DIÁZ: Well, yes, and that's the argument from law enforcement here, and even from President Trump. Like, if you go after the cartels and if you stop the drug trafficking — meaning if there's no fentanyl coming across the border, then the problem, the problem is over, right? We solved it. And you know clearly that would help. That would definitely help. But we know that when there is a demand, people will find a way. And keep in mind fentanyl is a synthetic drug, right? And it's much easier to produce than, you know, heroin or other drugs. So they're already here, right? It's just not crossing the drug across the border. But the drug cartels are already here in the United States, and they'll find a way, you know. They'll find a way to produce a fentanyl here or get it from someplace else, if we do not tackle the root of the of the problem, which is addiction.
GILGER: All right, we'll leave it there for now. Elvia Díaz, editorial page editor of the Arizona Republic, joining us, as she does on Mondays. Elvia, thanks as always, appreciate it.
DIÁZ: Thank you.
