HonorHealth Research Institute recently opened its new lab, called the Center for Translational Science, in downtown Phoenix’s Bioscience Core.
Earlier this year, HonorHealth announced the person who’d run that operation: Dr. Sunil Sharma, an oncologist who does both clinical and lab-based research. He comes to this job after spending time with TGen, among other firms.
Sharma joined The Show to discuss, starting with the timing of all of this. It seems like a really interesting time for people who do what you do, in terms of research, because of a lot of really interesting new advances but also some questions about how much of it Sharma will to be able to continue to do.
Full conversation
MARK BRODIE: I'd like to start with the timing of all of this. And it seems like a really interesting time for people who do what you do in terms of research, I would imagine both because of a lot of really interesting new advances, but also maybe some questions about how much of it you're going to be able to continue to do?
SUNIL SHARMA: The center that we're establishing at HonorHealth is actually slightly different from all the basic science and all the important research that is currently under a lot of pressure. Our work is very close to the patients. So we use, for instance, patients own tumors to develop models of cancer and then use those, use a sort of sophisticated genetic and protein information, RNA information, to then develop drugs, right almost at the bedside. It's not quite at the bedside, obviously, because it's in the lab.
BRODIE: Yeah.
SHARMA: But that's the big promise and excitement of this new effort. But you're absolutely right. Research, sort of the science and research is under a lot of pressure, especially in this last few months.
BRODIE: So are you looking at more, maybe personalized medicine? You mentioned maybe taking a patient specific tumor and creating a treatment for that person that maybe could also be used for other people. But it sounds like what you're doing is very personalized here.
SHARMA: Yeah, I think that there is always the kind of dynamic tension between creating something that can create one thing that can apply to everybody, and then balancing that against some personalized medicines.
BRODIE: Yeah.
SHARMA: So we actually do both. So I'll give you an example of the personalized side of things before I just came from T Gen, where I was now moving my lab the latest. For the last five years, we've developed a personalized vaccine and a cell therapy program for patients. In this case, we take the patient's tumor, we sort of do genetic screening on the tumor.
We develop, for instance, the best candidates for vaccinating the patient, using that genetic information to treat the cancer, and using the same genetic information to develop the patient's own lymphocytes or cell therapies to treat the cancer. That's been an example of personalized therapy for cancer. Of course, there is a lot of effort also going into developing treatments that are so called off the shelf, where basically the same treatment is given to lots of patients.
BRODIE: Well, what's the balance there? Because I would imagine that, you know, the personalized treatment is great for the person that you created it for. Maybe it has applications for other patients. Maybe it doesn't, but that doesn't make it necessarily less expensive and less time consuming to come up with, right?
SHARMA: So unbelievably, excellent question. That is the problem with the personalized size of things? Because in some senses, if you had a treatment which was applicable to everybody, then you could get sort of economies of scale.
BRODIE: Yeah.
SHARMA: Right. On the other hand, a personalized approach is much more individualistic, so you have potentially, not just the cost issue, but also the timing issue, meaning you actually need to study the tumor, and you need some time to do it and then develop the treatment. So it's not really off the shelf.
And certain situations singular approach, which is off the shelf, has worked. In fact, in fact, most of the cancer drugs that you see, most of the treatments we have, are kind of off the shelf. And then the idea there is, you take the information and you develop treatments that can apply. The big challenge of the personalized treatments is, what you just mentioned, is how to do that in an efficient way and reduce the cost.
BRODIE: Well, how similar or different are some of those treatments? Like, is it possible to have, sort of, as you described it, like an off the shelf treatment that is maybe tweakable depending on a particular patient? Like, is it possible to have a sort of the umbrella, maybe category of treatments and then maybe make minor modifications based on a specific patient's genetic makeup or the specific kind of tumor they have.
SHARMA: It's a wonderful question again. So as the genetic characterization of the patients has become really advanced, what has happened is there is enormous databases of genetic information for individual patients that are available now, using methodology such as artificial intelligence, now we have the ability to do exactly what you're saying, which is look for a base level of shared, potentially actionable information.
In which would lead to an off the shelf product, and then you tweak it, or in addition or give another personalized product in addition to that. And that's exactly the approach we're taking for our vaccines, for instance.
BRODIE: So the new center that otter health is going to be doing, that you're going to be leading, is going to be in very close proximity to other sort of similar facilities, including those from Arizona's public universities.
I'm curious to you, what is the benefit? What's the importance of having those other facilities and yours all sort of in the same general place, and maybe be able to work together and learn from each other?
SHARMA: I think we are just in the early phases in Arizona building a biomedical infrastructure. You know, obviously, as you would know very well, University of Arizona has been here for a long time. Mayo clinic has been here. What is going on in that quadrangle, if you might, downtown, where ASU is now building the new medical school, which we're partnering with them on. And I think it's very dynamic. It's a very good time, actually, with all this activity.
And now, Mayo, I think you might have heard that Mayo just announced their whole discovery innovation center with a large investment up in Scottsdale, near where Mayo is. So it's a great time to develop this. And obviously we need all hands on deck. The big difference with the Center for translation science, or the big compliment, I shouldn't say difference, but the thing that we're complementing is that HonorHealth is an incredible community based, you know, health health care system.
I think, like you said, all of this is complementary to the other efforts. There's no, you know, there's some healthy competition, but it's not like it's we all we need to all work together, like you said, to make a difference. Yeah.
BRODIE: What do you think is the ultimate potential of all of these different institutions working together? And maybe what is the potential of Phoenix as a biomedical hub? How important could this be, nationally, maybe around the world?
SHARMA: Yeah. I mean, I think the Phoenix is, I think, if I'm not wrong on this as a fifth largest city in the country, robust, you know, with ASU University of Arizona and NAU, a large, you know, science based, you know, sort of education system, with all these efforts, I think we really can become the hub for innovation in the biomedical space outside of the coast. mean, obviously right now, everything is sort of very coastal centric.
But I think because of all the people moving here, the population growth, we really it is sort of incumbent on us to really build this, and we need venture firms and others to co-locate here, some pharmaceutical companies to express interest. But all of that sort of falls into place once you build the different pieces of the puzzle. And if you do, in this case, if you do build people will come a, b, discoveries will happen, and then we will, you know, really have an impact, both for, you know, the population of Arizona, but beyond that. And that's what you know, we're committing to here. And obviously I'm personally committed to it because, because, because of all the different things that I mentioned.
