The mall was a big part of Erik Pierson’s life as a kid.
"The mall was just a place that we went to as kids because it was free air conditioning, it was stuff to do, it was somewhere our parents could get rid of us for a little bit. So, I spent a lot of time, especially in my teenaged years, at the mall," Pierson said.
"And then, just watching over the years as a lot of the malls in the Phoenix area kind of started to slowly crumble, it just became super interesting to me that something that when I was a teenager was so popular and so busy is now something that a lot of people don’t even think about anymore."
Pierson grew up in Phoenix; he’s now in his 40s. And, malls are still a part of his life. He runs the Retail Archaeology channel on YouTube, where, among other things, he takes viewers inside dead and dying malls.
Pierson joined The Show from the food court of a Valley mall to talk about his interest in these places.
Full conversation
ERIC PIERSON: The first time that I ever visited what you would call a dead mall, was Fiesta Mall right before I started my YouTube channel, probably about seven years ago, and that was the first mall that I went into and never saw it be dead like not hardly any businesses open, no people walking around, and it was just so impactful, that experience that it got me interested into it.
MARK BRODIE: Was there a time period that to you sort of led to the, the or was sort of emblematic of the downfall of the mall in the Phoenix area?
PIERSON: Yeah, I think starting in about … the late ‘90s, I wouldn't say malls were dying in the Phoenix area, but in the late ‘90s is when we kind of got all of the malls in the Phoenix area built and I think that was kind of the beginning of the end for a lot of them because I feel like malls were overbuilt in the Phoenix area and so you had malls competing with malls and there just was too many malls for the amount of people in the Phoenix area and so I think that's kind of when it started.
But I don't think it became something that a lot of people noticed until probably the early to mid-2000s is when it really started, I think, becoming apparent to a lot of other people.
BRODIE: What role do you think things like Amazon and like Target and Walmart and sort of the big box stores, what role did they play in, in sort of the, the demise in addition to, as you say, maybe too many malls for not enough people here?
PIERSON: I, I think it's interesting how a lot of, you know, a lot of people say Amazon killed them all, the Internet killed them all. I, I, I think it's interesting that you kind of lumped Target and Walmart in there because I think that's the bigger picture. Obviously Amazon is not good for malls, but retailers like Target and Walmart have really exploded as well, and they also sell a lot of things that malls sell so, I think the internet, Target, Walmart, overbuilding, economic conditions, it's all kind of like a death by 1,000 cuts kind of thing.
BRODIE: So you mentioned how people, you know, shopping is a little different now our habits, you know, people want to walk to a store and, and not have to walk around an entire mall. I'm curious what you think about other reasons to bring people to the mall. I mean, there's a train that just pulled up behind where we're sitting. There's an arcade right there like you can come to a mall now and not actually do any shopping.
PIERSON: Yeah, and I think that's a, a change that is important for malls to make. Like I think this mall, Arizona Mills Mall, does a good job offering a lot of experiences like the, the Tilt arcade behind us, you've got a, a Legoland experience here. I think the malls that do a good job of kind of mixing those experiences in with the, with the retail stuff, I think do a better job of getting people into the mall.
BRODIE: I know that you've walked through, you mentioned Fiesta Mall. I know Metrocenter was a big place for you in your childhood. When you walk through those dead malls, like, what, what do you see through your eyes? Like what is it, what does it look like? What does it feel like to you walking through those places?
PIERSON: It's a, it's a mix of feelings. There's a very large feeling of nostalgia, just kind of walking around and remembering how, how things were when I was younger. There's also a kind of a sense of, of melancholy, Because these buildings are so big, when you walk around them, you start to get the sense that, you know, is, is it really like just this mall that has a problem or is this a sign of bigger things, you know, for the economy or whatever in general so it it's a mix it's a mix of wonderment, and just that kind of watching a car crash feeling. Because that's kind of what it's, what it's like. You're you're watching kind of a slow motion car crash basically as things kind of start to fall apart and close down. And so it, it, it's hard to explain but it's, it's a mix of, of good memories and worrying about the future, I guess.
BRODIE: What worries about the future when you look at, at malls closing down or not doing well?
PIERSON: You know, there's obviously the economic worries, you know, is this happening because of issues with the economy? I worry about, you know, when I was a teenager, the mall was a place to go socialize, maybe get a job and learn how to kind of have that first job experience and learn how to have a job.
And with the malls going away, you know, when the mall goes away a lot of that is lost. It's not just like, oh I can't go to Sears and go buy something it's, you know, all the teenagers in this area have lost a place to experience those kind of important first steps of life like getting a job. You know, meeting a girl at the mall that that kind of stuff, you know, it's it's just all kinda I, I worry that that's all gonna go away. And it worries me that you know people in general don't socialize as much as they used to and so having one less place to go do that feels not, you know, feels bad.
BRODIE: So growing up in a place like Phoenix, I would imagine that you have seen a lot of things change over the course of, of your life so far when you look at a thing like Metro Center or malls in general, like where does that fit for you? And sort of the, the oh my gosh, this is very different than the place of my childhood.
PIERSON: It's kind of it's it's sad, in a way because again, you know, malls back when I was a kid, they were exciting places they were bustling when you were there when you were in the mall, you know you could socialize and and it just kind of seemed like a kind of perfect slice of America, Americana. But now that's kind of slowly going away and it, it kind of losing things, you know, not just like malls but the retail setting in general is kind of started to become so bland and everything that it's just, I don't know if depressing is the word, but it's it's sad to see some of the changes and to see some of the the vibrancy and whatnot kind of removed from the community.
BRODIE: So when you post a video about a mall or a dead mall, like what kind of comments do you get? What, what kind of responses do viewers give you based on that?
PIERSON: There's several different kinds, a lot of them, and the ones that I enjoy the most are the ones of people who grew up going to that mall. Like I get, I get a lot of comments on videos like when I did one on Metrocenter from people saying, oh, you know, I live in Nebraska now but I grew up in, in Phoenix and I remember going to Metrocenter Mall and I haven't seen it in 30 years.
And so a lot of times it's, it's, it's, it's thanking me for, for putting that up for them to see so they can kind of because they'll start oh that's where I, you know, met this girl or that this is where I got this video game, you know, over in that corner where that story used to be.
So there's a lot of that, a lot of nostalgia, there is a lot of, you know, that's Amazon for you. Amazon killed them all, and you know I, I try to reply to as many of those as possible, you know, at least explaining my point of view that although Amazon hasn't been good for malls, I don't think it's the thing that killed it on its own, but most of the comments are, are people just kind of reminiscing about the place that I filmed and and sharing stories about things that happened when they were there in the past.
