Arizona state lawmakers who live in Maricopa County would get a pay increase under a proposal up for debate in a House committee later today. The proposal would increase the per diem those legislators get to around $200 per day; right now, that number is $35 per day.
Howie Fischer of Capitol Media Services joined The Show to talk about what to expect this week at the state Capitol.
Full conversation
MARK BRODIE: So I want to start with sort of where we are in the legislative session, because a lot of committee work is generally done. We're now at the point where bills are coming up for debate and, and votes in each chamber and sort of moving back and forth, right?
HOWARD FISCHER: Yes, this in some ways becomes where the rubber meets the road. I mean, it, it's, I won't say it's easy to get a bill through committee. But there are a lot of times, and you've been out at the Capitol and you've also seen this where they say, well, it's not perfect. I wouldn't like it, but I'll tell you what, we will advance it to the floor and see if you can fix it or convince me that I'm wrong.
Well, we're at that stage now where there are so many things where people come up with ideas on how we're gonna fix elections, how we're gonna change the correction system, how we're going to regulate food stamp purchases. And now you have to figure out, what does it take to get 16 votes in the Senate, 31 votes in the House, and then, assuming you can survive that, get the signature of the governor.
BRODIE: Right. All right, so Howie, let's talk about this proposal from Rep. David Livingston, chair of the House Appropriations Committee, that would increase the amount of per diem in county lawmakers get and seemingly by quite a bit.
FISCHER: Well, this is a fascinating issue because if you look at it strictly, per diem is an allowance by definition. So for example, the lawmakers from outside of Maricopa County get a figure that is equal to what the General Accounting Office, the federal General Accounting Office says people should get when they're traveling.
If you're coming in from Flagstaff, if you're coming up from Tucson, if you're not driving up every day, you need a hotel here or some sort of alternate place to live, you know, buy or rent a condo, you need the meals, the things that you normally need to get at home. Lawmakers from in the county don't have those same expenses. I don't get money to drive to the office. I'm guessing you're not getting a per diem from KJZZ from coming down to the office there.
BRODIE: I’m not.
FISCHER: So, the question becomes, why raise the per diem? And what Rep. Livingston says is, “look, Howie, this is not really per diem. It's really part of our salary, even though we, you know, we acknowledge that it's something different.”
You cannot raise legislative salary except by voter approval. And the last time voters agreed to do that was in 1998 when they brought it to current $24,000 a year. In fact, there is a measure that's also going to be heard [Monday] to ask voters to increase that by inflation backdated to 1998, which would take us up to about $48,000. Again, that needs to go to the voters.
This one does not. This one simply says, well, our expenses are such that we need what's going to be equivalent to, as you point out, about $200 a day and, you know, to his credit, Mr. Livingston is not saying we need that for expenses. He's saying everyone should be paid roughly equally, and it's unfair to the in-county lawmakers because they have to live in the $24,000 a year plus the $35 a day. Now also remember though that $35 a day is seven days a week while they're in session, whether in fact they are here. They include Saturdays and Sundays and holidays and everything else.
This is going to be something that's popular, I think, with certain in-county lawmakers from both parties.
I think there's a feeling, for example, from the resignation of Sen. Eva Burch, that the pay is not enough, you know, she resigned. She said, I cannot keep up my job as a nurse practitioner and come down here and do this for $24,000 a year. But I think the question for a lot of people is, is it sort of sneaky to do it if you can't get us to approve it at the ballot to do it for yourselves and call it an allowance?
BRODIE: Yeah, that is really interesting. Howie, I want to ask you about a non-legislative but more of an election-related thing you mentioned talking about changing the election system. Somebody who's been very involved in that at the state Capitol is Scottsdale Rep. Alexander Kolodin, who later [Monday] is going to be announcing that he is running for secretary of state.
FISCHER: Yes, they're trying to create a, a dream ticket, at least from the perspective of the Freedom Caucus, of conservatives who they think can, can sway the voters and say, you know, after a couple of years of Katie [Hobbs] and, and Adrian [Fontes] and Kris Mayes to come up with, with a ticket that they think the voters would like more.
Now, remember the last dream ticket was Kari Lake and Mark Finchem and and Abe Hamadeh, and they didn't go anywhere, so I don't know how well it worked.
This ticket would start off with Andy Biggs, who was running for governor, assuming he survives the primary, and then, as you point out, Alexander Kolodin for secretary of state, and then we we have Warren Petersen, who's the Senate president, who always said that he'd like to be the attorney general.
I think there's a belief that folks want a more conservative legislature, a more conservative ticket at the top, and they, they're basing that on to a certain extent, the success of Mr. [Donald] Trump last last time around. Now, does that translate out? You know, hard to know.
I mean, we've had some special elections in some other states of districts that have been traditionally red, where they've elected Democrats. Obviously we'll we'll hear more from Mr. Kolodin today about what his ideas are. We know he supports certain things. For example, he was very much against Kris Mayes, the attorney general, when she brought charges against some county officials who refused to certify the election because they were unsure that, that they had the results, and he wants to say, “no, you can't do that. If they're not sure you can't ask them to certify the election.”
He also has a few other interesting opinions, not the least of which is going to the firing squad to execute condemned inmates.
