Some big changes are coming to the United Soccer League, or USL, where Phoenix Rising plays.
Starting in 2027, the league will launch a Division One league, which would be the top professional level in the USL. That means this league would be on the same level as Major League Soccer, although it would operate separately from MLS.
USL officials have also voted to adopt a promotion/relegation system – that could happen by 2028. It’s a system used by soccer leagues in much of the rest of the world, but not by any American leagues. Under it, the top few teams in lower levels can move up a level at the end of a season, while the bottom teams are moved down.
Tim Riester, alternate governor for Phoenix Rising FC, joined The Show to talk about these changes.
Full conversation
TIM RIESTER: Well, it's fantastic news, and for us, it just completely changes pro sports in the United States and, and for North America. Every existing pro sport is set where you, you pay to join a league. And no matter how poorly you perform, you're gonna be in the league. And we all know teams in any sport, whether it's the NFL or NBA or Major League Baseball, where they're just chronically poor performers, and there's no repercussion for them.
Everywhere else in the world, in soccer, there's a system called promotion and relegation, and it rewards teams. That invest in their product and hold themselves to a, to a higher level of performance, and it punishes the teams that don't. And for fans, I think it makes it much more exciting because every game matters. Even if the team's having a tough year, every game matters because the team could be relegated.
MARK BRODIE: Right. Well, so as somebody who has a, a stake in this team, how do you sort of reconcile the fact that, you know, you paid to be part of, of the USL, you have an investment in the team. Suddenly, you could be down a rung. Like that's one of the reasons why a lot of other professional sports leagues in, in the U.S. don't have this, because owners really don't want it.
RIESTER: That's exactly why the other teams haven't done it. The United States is the kind of economy where if you have enough money, you get to always be at the top, and the rest of the world doesn't operate that way, and soccer is an international sport.
And to us, the opportunity to become more permanently a part of the international world, the way the international world respects soccer was very important to us, and we understand the risks involved. And in fact, it took two votes to get our board that, that the league's board …
So I, I have the opportunity to serve on the board for the entire league with the, the other 24 or the other 23 teams. There's 24 of us in total in the USL championship. And we took a look at this several years ago, and based on what you're saying, right, people weren't ready yet, but it took a few years for everyone to understand how much the fans and the sponsors and the TV and radio partners want us to do this, and it was a a great joy in the meeting with that vote, just several weeks ago to see a supermajority of us all vote yes.
BRODIE: When USL moves to the different divisions and the Division One is in place, are you confident Phoenix Rising will be in that?
RIESTER: Yes, I am. I, Phoenix Rising has been at the top of, of the crop the entire time that, that we've participated in the league. We have the expectation to continue doing well. We've built a winning culture. Sometimes the ball doesn't bounce the way that we hope, right? You know, you, you also need to be lucky. But hard work can create more luck.
And I believe when Division One begins for USL, which should be in 2027, I, I believe you'll see Phoenix Rising among those initial teams, and part of that is U.S., the U.S. Soccer Federation has very specific regulations for Division One. So Division One is where MLS is now, and what's happening is we are launching, our league is launching a Division One league that will be equal to MLS.
But to get there, we all have to have stadiums with a minimum of 15,000 seats. And there's monetary requirements that are higher.
BRODIE: Let me ask you about the stadium issue because I know that's been a sort of a concern and an issue for Phoenix Rising over the years. Does this mean that, that you will have a ,a more permanent home once Division One starts?
RIESTER: So the city of Phoenix has been an amazing partner to us and our existing location for our stadium and training facility right now is just north of the airport. That stadium lease goes into the early 2030s, and that's really, really helpful to us to have that certainty and that success with that, that partner, the, the city of Phoenix.
The way our stadium is built now, we can easily add 5,000 seats to it to get to 15, to get to 15,000. It, for us, we can do that more easily than just about any team in the league now. So the league is counting on us to deliver it at the time of, of coming up to Division One.
BRODIE: So you mentioned MLS and Phoenix Rising has made no secret of the fact that it would like to join MLS at some point. Do you see this as a way to merge the leagues in some way or to get some of the USL teams to be able to join MLS? Like, is there any hope of that?
RIESTER: So the MLS is doing an amazing job and they have continued to increase the quality of professional soccer in North America. We have so much respect for them at MLS, but MLS is becoming very expensive to enter.
What we're really attracted to with the USL, the Papadakis family that owns the league is extremely committed to making professional soccer accessible to more cities in the United States. And, and for us to have an opportunity to move up to Division One, which is equal to MLS, this is important for people to know. When we end up in Division One in 2027, we will be playing at a level equal in the world of soccer to MLS. We'll be playing against them in tournaments, and if we can win Division One in the USL, we still get a Champions League club spot in CONCACAF, which is the North American division of FIFA just like if we had won MLS.
So it's equal in the eyes of world soccer to MLS and it allows us to do it where we are now, which from a financial perspective gives us an opportunity that we didn't even know was going to become available.
BRODIE: Do you then see USL Division One becoming, or attempting to become, competition to Major League Soccer?
RIESTER: It needs to, and when we think about the history of the other major professional sports in the United States today, the NFL ended up a combination of two former separate leagues that were Division One. The NBA did as well. So it's possible, I don't know if it will happen in my lifetime or not, but I think we're building something that will create more opportunities for people to enjoy professional soccer at the highest level.
It will build the quality of pro soccer to where on the world stage, the, the U.S. men's national team will get better and better and better because we're going to be developing more players. And I think at some point, the system will probably come together.
BRODIE: Well, so you mentioned the NFL and the NBA, and both of them did have mergers, with the AFL merging with the NFL, and the ABA with the NBA. But also, you know, when you talk about the NFL, there's the USFL, which was seen as a competition for the NFL, which did not end up merging. It, it folded.
You know, some of these other leagues that are seen as or see themselves as competition to the more established leagues, they don't always end up so well. How do you make sure that that doesn't happen to to USL?
RIESTER: Well, the MLS has been a, a tremendous partner and has assisted the USL in many ways. They've specifically helped Phoenix Rising many times. We see everything we're doing as complementary.
So the the partnership is very strong. We don't see ourselves competing with them. We see our league and their league working together to create the best level and the, and the most professional soccer at the highest quality in North America.
