When you think about puppet shows, lots of things likely come to mind. But, it’s probably safe to say that none of those things involve giant ants.
But that’s exactly what Shaun McNamara is offering in his latest show, called "Atomic Ants." The current show runs through Sunday.
McNamara, owner and artistic director of All Puppet Players, joined The Show to discuss where did the idea for "Atomic Ants" come from.
Full conversation
SHAUN MCNAMARA: Well, I love 1950s black and white sci-fi/horror movies. They're sort of a new genre that I've discovered within the last five years. I've really started to fall in love with them, and it sort of transported me back to this particular movie, “Them!,” 1954 movie with giant puppet ants, and I used to watch this movie when I would stay at my grandmother's house and I just sort of became obsessed with the idea that, in theater, there are all these large puppets. “Little Shop of Horrors,” you have “King Kong” on Broadway, but I've never seen anything that was sort of so retro and sci-fi and bizarre as a giant ants. So, it all sort of melded together. It hit me at just the right point, and I started working on the script. And it just sort of took off from there.
MARK BRODIE: And you have all different sizes of ants in the show. Like, what is that like to try to logistically put on a stage?
MCNAMARA: Well, for our stage, it's not great logistically, only because we're in the old Dial building. We're in the Playhouse on the Park theater, which is basically at the bottom of a 28-story, high rise. It was built for meeting rooms. You know, you would take the third floor and they'd come down and have an HR meeting in there. It's not built for theater and special effects and smoke and giant ants.
So, the creativity of packing the back of the stage with all of these bizarre creatures and different forms — and it became this puzzle, while we were working with it, and it was a puzzle that I don't know if I've necessarily completed until maybe just recently. We were still moving things around, endings changing, creatures coming out in different forms, different blocking, different lines. I'm always trying to make a perfect show. So, our shows are never the same.
BRODIE: Have you made a perfect show yet?
MCNAMARA: No, one day though, one day. I've gotten close. I think I've gotten really close. I think our "Princess Bride" show is pretty close. But I love to, because I'm in all the shows because I have a giant ego. So my cast and crew have this unfortunate lifestyle where they have to deal with someone who's constantly changing and fixing and trying to make it better. And what's great about all of them that I work with is they're totally up for that challenge.
BRODIE: I wonder about the challenges of doing that. Like if you're doing that with human actors, you can, for example, change costumes or change makeup or something like that. The puppets, you can't really do that quite as much, can you? Like the puppets are built and kind of — they are who they are.
MCNAMARA: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and and that's one of the nice things about this show is we've created four “whatnot puppets.” and what “whatnot puppets” are is a Jim Henson invention where their eyes, their noses, their tongues, basically all their facial features can be removed, and we can re-add new wigs, new costumes. So, we actually have four characters that are actually 12 characters within the show that we can rebuild and sort of swap. And this is the first show we've ever tried to do that on.
BRODIE: So I know for you the story is sort of the main thing. The puppets, almost like a means to an end, right, to be able to write and and put a story together. I'm curious about, sort of, how your relationship with puppetry and maybe with specific puppets has evolved as you've been doing this longer and longer?
MCNAMARA: Well, I will say when I first started, puppetry was just a means to do, to write and direct a show and produce it. I never thought I would be doing this 15 years later. Not at all — especially not for my profession. It was just a way to get on stage and sort of get some stage time, and I thought puppets was a good niche to sell some tickets. And, when it became something different, I really had to reset my mind.
And one of the first things I did was, when we approach a a show or when I approach a show, I say the thought behind it must be, it's the puppets that are trying to put on “Lost Boys,” or it's the puppets that are trying to put on “Atomic Ants,” or it's the puppets that are trying to put on “Princess Bride.” And things are going to go wrong, because they're puppets and they can't do things correctly. And if I can keep that, in that frame of reference, everything that comes before it doesn't need to be perfected.
BRODIE: That seems very much like sort of an homage maybe to “The Muppet Show,” right? Because that was the whole premise, that Kermit and the gang were like trying to put on this giant stage production.
MCNAMARA: Listen, if you could point out all the similarities by what I'm stealing from those geniuses, you'd be absolutely correct. But, I'm only 20% of the genius that they are — and by genius, I really do use that term loosely. And what I'd like to think in a very, very small inconsequential, no ill will meant, I think that we're taking that spirit and we're putting it live on stage in Arizona in a way that no one is expecting. It's these puppets getting together and putting on a show of '80s films. And I really think that's a funny idea.
BRODIE: What is your writing process? Because I know that some movie writers or TV writers like they will have a particular actor in mind that they are writing a part for. You're writing for foam characters.
MCNAMARA: Yeah. Listen, I'm going to tell you my writing process — and you're not going to believe it and no one listening is going to believe it, or they're going to hate me and think it's dumb. But I will stew on an idea. It'll just remain in my head. Maybe I'll write down a few little, you know, lines or little scenes like, but all I have to do is once I know what the ending is, I normally, what my wife calls “nesting.” She'll start to see Harkins popcorn show up at the house. She'll see a couple of Red Bulls, start to interpret and, you know, show up in the fridge. She'll see some snacks and she'll go, “Oh, you're going to write this weekend.” And then literally what happens is Friday after I pick up my daughter from school, I lock myself in my office, and then Sunday I normally come out with a pretty polished, finished script.
BRODIE: You're like reverse engineering a story.
MCNAMARA: Yeah, yes, yeah, but I do it in a 48 hour cave-like, you know, no outside, noise level. It's a very horrible — I wish I could just every morning, get up and write, you know, for an hour or two. I know that's a lot of writers, like, “I get up, I have a cup of coffee, I write in the morning.” I can't do it like that. I, for some reason, I find my creativity is almost always eclipses after 6 o'clock p.m.
BRODIE: Well, and as you reference, like once you're on stage, once you have the other puppeteers, once you have the puppets, it sounds as though you're kind of adjusting and tweaking. I assume that includes the writing as well?
MCNAMARA: Absolutely. My cast and crew, and this is best joke goes. So if you've got a pitch, if you've got a joke, you've got a bit, shout it out and we'll work it in. I think every single script that my actors have has got scribbles and black marks and pages ripped out, because we're just constantly transforming it into its perfect form.
BRODIE: I'm curious about the reactions you get from your audiences. Like, what are you looking for on stage? What do you see in the audience?
MCNAMARA: So, when we perform, we're wearing these black masks. And I've been in these masks now for almost 15 years. And what I am scanning for is, I'm not really looking at faces, I'm looking at body language, and what I'm really looking for is people who are getting up and moving. Or someone who is whispering to someone because I'll stop the whole show to talk about that. “Hey, where are you headed? Who are you guys talking about? We're right here. This isn’t TV. I can see you talking. What are you saying?”
BRODIE: As the puppet?
MCNAMARA: As the puppet. There's nothing crazier to me than someone going back home and being like, “We were — I was in the middle of a whisper and this puppet turned to me and was like, what the f—k are you saying?” I just love that idea. So I am more, I'm living in the moment, in terms of what I'm looking for is something that will make this show even more a one-time-only event for those people in the audience. So, I'm looking for that.
It's also different and genuine and I don't think that there's anything better than having this child-like innocence coming from adults while watching a puppet show.
