Universities have been at the forefront of a lot of the biggest national stories over the past several months, from issues of protest and free speech to concerns about the loss of research and general funding.
Just last week, President Trump called Harvard a ‘disgrace;’ that followed the Administration’s freezing of more than $2 billion in grants and contracts from the university. Harvard’s president said the school would not take the actions demanded by the administration, saying it would not ‘surrender its independence or relinquish its constitutional rights.’
Despite much of the focus right now centering on Ivy League schools, Arizona’s three public universities are not immune from these kinds of conversations.
Ernest Calderón, an attorney and former member of the Arizona Board of Regents, which oversees the public universities, joined The Show to discuss the roles and missions of Arizona’s universities, how recent events may be forcing a re-evaluation of them and what he saw as the role of these schools. Calderón also has a doctorate in education and served as a regent, from 2004-2012.
This conversation took place before the latest dispute between the Trump Administration and Harvard.
Full conversation
ERNEST CALDERÓN: Well, number one, our universities help students decide who they're going to be in life and shaping the person or allowing them to shape themselves is very, very important. Secondly, it's workforce development. We can, you know, everything from engineers to, you know, lawyers to, you know, botanists that you name it, and Arizona is a growing state. There's always a need for a well educated workforce. And we were providing that to gosh, I don't know it was close to 200,000 students then it's a lot more now.
MARK BRODIE: Do you see that maybe the role is evolving over the last number of years?
CALDERÓN: It is evolving because it's economically forced to evolve. It seems like every decade, the universities receive a slighter percentage of support from the Arizona legislature. Back in the day, I'll say when I was in law school, excuse me, back in the day when I was in undergrad school, the state provided ASU probably 90% of their budget, Arizona 95% and NAU was in the high 80s and now it's in the teens. Now, when you and I pay taxes, why are we paying taxes? So government can serve us and one of the services that government can do is to help grow a workforce. So yes, the universities are changing, but they're changing because they have to do more with less.
BRODIE: Has that changed sort of how they view their missions, do you think?
CALDERÓN: Oh yes, I, I, I sensed when I was president of the board, a level of hostility at the legislature relative to the universities. It was like pulling teeth, trying to you'd have to make your case all the time just to either maintain where you were or to take a little cut.
BRODIE: So when you look at sort of the two missions that you outlined earlier, helping students sort of figure out who they're going to be in workforce development. Are one or both of those not as sort of front and center for Arizona universities now, do you think?
CALDERÓN: I think they're both front and center, I just don't think anybody at the legislature is paying attention. I think that our, our biggest audience or people who have children who are going into college or are in undergraduate school and the like. I don't think people are really noticing it except the usual suspects.
BRODIE: In terms of funding and sort of respect and importance that kind of thing?
CALDERÓN: Absolutely, absolutely it was a big deal at one time in the state to be a university president. Now if you're a university president, you're just like another department head in the state amongst 23, 24 other department heads.
BRODIE: I'm curious what you make of some of the more, I guess we can call them social aspects of university life. We've, for example, recently, you know, in the past number of months have heard a lot about what is the role of free speech on university campuses and what kinds of speakers should be allowed or not allowed to be there and how students can maybe react to hearing opinions that they disagree with and protests and things like that. I'm curious what you're, what you're seeing as somebody who used to help oversee the university system. What are you seeing in terms of that, that respect?
CALDERÓN: Well, I, I, it's refreshing for me to see protest of any kind because this country's founded on the First Amendment and people being able to responsibly express themselves. Our universities have traditionally been sort of the crucible for society's pressures and the beauty of our university system in this country is that the First Amendment and freedom of speech was protected. Now, because universities rely on a lot of federal dollars, it's become somewhat more political and you're seeing a reaction from higher education where certain types of political speech are frowned upon.
In my book, everybody should be able to speak out, both sides, as long as it's responsible, nobody should get hurt, hopefully nobody would get violent, nobody would destroy property, but the universities provided that, they provided the opportunity for students and faculty to express their opinions, and I'm hoping that the pendulum will swing back a little bit and the public will say yes, it's good that people are protesting that they're opening our eyes to another point of view.
BRODIE: I wanted to ask you about that responsible piece of it because when you talk about, for example, destroying property, you know, some would argue that encampments were were destroying property or like breaking into buildings or, you know, occupying buildings and not treating them with the respect they deserve or, you know, on some campuses students were precluded from taking their usual route to class, things like that where the protests were maybe a little more, if not violent than maybe sort of dangerous or threatening to certain students. How do you see, like, how should universities be trying to make sure that protests are kept safe and responsible and to an extent respectful?
CALDERÓN: Well, in Arizona, I feel very comfortable with the Arizona Board of Regents. The Arizona Board of Regents who oversees our three public universities, because they set parameters, and student safety is paramount. So if there are protests that impinge on student safety, you will see the board of Regents policy or university policy step in to ensure that students can go to class they can study in class. On the other hand, we will also, the Board of Regents, would also ensure that if someone wants to protest outside in a safe way that they be afforded that opportunity.
BRODIE: Do you feel confident that that is still the case that those sort of procedures are followed?
CALDERÓN: I do, I do, and my comfort comes from knowing two of the presidents, Michael Crow, and, Jose Luis Cruz Rivera at NAU. I don't know the new UOFA president, but I'm looking forward to meeting him. Both of those people seem to be, both of those presidents seem to be very attuned to the fact that universities have a social responsibility to allow people to hear the other side of the issue and to debate those issues and do it in a safe, respectable way.
BRODIE: So when you look at sort of the totality of factors that go into universities' operations in terms of, you know, the academics and the diverse opinions and and perspectives that students and and faculty have funding from the legislature and elsewhere, what do you see Arizona university's mission will be going forward? Like what, what does the future hold for them, do you think?
CALDERÓN: I definitely think that funding will follow job creation. So you very well might see the universities, slightly shift to more of your hands-on jobs. I think you'll see a lot of the job centered funding come its way. I have mixed feelings about that. I think it's good, but on the other hand, I think people learn by studying literature, philosophy, music. I think, I think there are a variety of avenues of personal enrichment that don't directly result in a job tomorrow, and are they gonna suffer?
BRODIE: Learning for the sake of learning.
CALDERÓN: Right? I mean, the social sciences and you think of the arts and the like common thing is your child comes home and says they want to become an artist, you say, OK, what are you gonna do for a day job? If you can't find a direct job, I think you're gonna see troubles in funding.
