Arizona’s public universities will start their fall semesters in the next several weeks. But despite that calendar, there’s still some uncertainty the schools are facing — most notably in terms of whether international students will be able to be on campus when classes start.
Arizona Regent Fred DuVal joined The Show to talk about some of the big issues facing the state’s universities as the new semesters get underway next month, starting with the state level with the new budget — and how he thinks universities did in the new spending plan.
Full conversation
FRED DUVAL: Well Mark, I appreciate the question because we are grateful that we’ve turned a corner with our state funding partners. And for the first year in decades, we’ve had a significant positive step towards investment. And we just can’t be more pleased with the bipartisan budget leadership that was able to make this investment of, in this particular case, $325 million in bonding authority, which enables us to build new facilities.
And it follows literally 20 years of cuts. And so we were getting very fragile.
MARK BRODIE: Obviously, one year of additional funding does not make up for, as you referenced, a couple of decades of cuts or no additional funding. But how much does this at least get you back on the right path?
DUVAL: Well, let me answer that two ways. First, to put the broader issue in context — and of course, this is not critical of anybody who’s there because this is over 20 years. We now fund our students at about half, on a per student basis, of what we did 20 years ago. We’ve more than doubled our enrollment, and that’s a reflection of that. So that’s how big of a hole we had found ourselves in.
But look, what does $325 million in what we call speed bonds mean? It means a gigantic step forward in an ASU medical school. It means a big step forward in NAU’s commitment to grow nursing by 1,200 nurses, both of which we critically need. The University of Arizona has got an array of technology-based and solutions-based, infrastructure requirements that they need. So this is valuable dollars that will enable us to really drive forward the kind of workforce and solutions that Arizonans need.
BRODIE: Is that additional money and authority even maybe a little more important right now as universities, both here in Arizona and around the country, are dealing with the loss of federal research dollars — understanding that it’s not really an apples-to-apples comparison. The state money is not meant to backfill that.
But the universities are dealing with a considerable amount less federal money. So I would imagine that any amount you get from the state right now is particularly helpful.
DUVAL: Yes, you’re absolutely right. I don’t want to get too much into the weeds. The cutbacks which are occurring at the federal government, one of the areas is what’s called indirect cost recovery, and that is the dollars which are not specifically involved in the research that the federal government is hiring us to produce, but is necessary to produce it. To the extent that we’ve got dollars for infrastructure, it definitely helps soften that impact.
BRODIE: Are you concerned about the universities’ ability to continue to do the kind of research that they’ve been doing over the last number of years?
DUVAL: Mark, I can’t tell you how anxious I am about it. Just to put it into a broader perspective: Talent is mobile. It’s resources in the ground. It moves. And so as we cut back on research and as we cut back on cancer research and technology research and the research that drives national security and research that drives new energy solutions, it will go elsewhere.
And Australia and Canada and Europe are putting together research packages for talented researchers who can create those breakthroughs. It’s what drives the 21st century economy. You think about what’s happened around Stanford and Silicon Valley. You think about what’s happened in health care in Austin and in Boston or UC San Diego.
These are intellectual infrastructures that create new ideas, that improves our quality of lives and raise people’s standard of living as well. It all starts in the lab. And the lab is something which we need to continue to invest in, or others will.
BRODIE: I know that ASU and UA and NAU have long been sort of in competition for, as you say, talent and innovators and scientists and researchers from other universities around the country. I wonder if what we’re seeing now, and you just alluded to it, is that the pool of competition is getting bigger because other countries now are starting to recruit American researchers or researchers who have been doing their work in the U.S.
So it’s not just ASU, for example, might lose somebody to MIT or to Stanford, it’s that they might lose a researcher or scientist to a whole other country.
DUVAL: That’s exactly right. And it is true both of researchers and, and I suspect this issue is on your list today, foreign students.
BRODIE: So let’s talk about international students, because that, of course, is another issue that the Trump administration is looking to deal with and reduce the number of international students coming to American universities. What are the conversations like between the university administrators and the regents about what kind of impact this might have, not just on the schools themselves, but on the state?
DUVAL: Sure. So let me first note that the concern about national security is real. All of us, regardless of politics or party, should share the concern that students from foreign countries should be vetted for national security risks. I think that’s a given. That said, what we don’t want to do is disincentivize great students from coming to the United States.
We are now approaching 50% of students in our Arizona universities are out of state. Now, that’s not foreign students, but that’s out-of-state students. Forty six percent of the Fortune 500 companies were started by immigrants or their children. These are the brightest, most talented students in the world. We don’t want to chase them away.
So we’ve got to strike the balance. We’ve got to make sure that we do the necessary vetting, but do it quickly and efficiently and in the context of creating a welcoming environment for the right students who do not have concerns to land here, succeed here, stay here, start businesses here and put people to work here.
BRODIE: With classes starting in the next several weeks here at universities, what are you hearing about what the schools are doing and what some of those international students who are in somewhat of a limbo now are looking to do?
DUVAL: It is true across the country. And so what we’re finding is that there is uncertainty. And in the case of uncertainty, it’s not as though students are saying, “Gee, I’m not getting this straight answer from Arizona State, so I’m going to go to the University of Kansas.” They’re not getting good answers from anybody across the United States.
And so they’re looking at other countries. And so I think we’ve got to address it. We’ve got to sort of land the issue and get clarity around it, get predictability around it in the way I describe. It’s essential for our balance sheet. I mentioned that we’re approaching 50% out-of-state students. The out-of-state students pay the full sticker price.
When you hear these, “Oh, there’s $33,000 a year for out-of-state students,” those dollars help support the student financial aid for Arizona students, who I should add, are not being displaced because we admit every qualified Arizona student. But whether they can stay is often a function of their ability to pay. And those out-of-state and foreign students create the dollars that we can use to backfill the student financial aid needs that our Arizona students need.
So it’s important for our Arizona attainment goals, and it’s important for our balance sheet as well as for our national competitiveness.
