KJZZ’s Friday NewsCap revisits some of the biggest stories of the week from Arizona and beyond.
To talk about a debate over whether a state lawmaker is doxing ICE agents, more disputes between the Maricopa County recorder and supervisors and more, The Show sat down with Matthew Benson of Veridus and Democratic strategist Tony Cani.
Conversation highlights
MARK BRODIE: Matt, let me start with you on Senate President Warren Petersen (R-Gilbert). He’s asking the U.S. attorney for Arizona to look into one of his Democratic colleagues: State Sen. Analise Ortiz (Phoenix). She was reposting some social media posts about where ICE agents were located — courthouses, things like that — during the time that they were picking up migrants and starting deportation proceedings.
He is accusing her of doxing them, of breaking other various laws. She is saying this is no different than using Waze to alert other drivers a speed trap is on the way. I’m curious how you see this.
MATTHEW BENSON: Well, I think we’ve seen in multiple jurisdictions around the country, instances of people posting as she did, where ICE activities are ongoing. I haven’t seen any of those successfully prosecuted as doxing or interfering with a federal operation or anything else. So that’ll be interesting to see going forward.
I think the bigger thing for me is the notion as she referred to these ICE agents as, I think, “masked thugs” or some term like that. I just think that is unfortunate. And it, it is similar to back in the ’90s when it was the far right that would refer to federal agents as jackbooted thugs, which was also wrong.
And so I just think it’s unfortunate that that’s the level of the discourse and that’s how we’re referring to folks that are carrying out very difficult operations and putting themselves in harm’s way in a lot of cases.
BRODIE: Tony, do you see this as a case of doxing?
TONY CANI: No, it’s not. It’s not a case of doxing because they’re first protected by the First Amendment. The ASU clinic on the First Amendment said, no. She’s within her rights.
And aside from all this, Warren Petersen wrote the doxing law, or at least he sponsored it. And maybe the reason why he referred this to the feds is because he knows it doesn’t actually fit into what doxing is in the state.
But this is specifically, she posted on Instagram that there was ICE activity and an address. That’s it. That’s all she posted. … It’s not doxing or illegal or dangerous when the radio points out that there’s police activity in a particular area. It’s the exact same thing.
And to be really clear about this, as we’re getting into sort of the legal nuance of everything, this is an elementary school where this activity was happening. This is an elementary school where immigration enforcement was happening. And I don’t think that that is the kind of thing that Americans want to happen right now. And I think that tensions are really high because of the escalation and what I think are really dangerous tactics that have been utilized in this enforcement.
People are like, “Oh, she’s putting people in danger by doing this.” When I hear that, I think one, we know that didn’t happen. We know that no one was injured and nothing like that happened. Like, we know that. And the second thing is if, if there’s a potential for danger, why are they going into an elementary school without notifying the school, without doing any of those kinds of things?
I think a lot of this is theater. I think that Petersen has been criticized for not being MAGA enough, and there were some radio hosts and some activists and people who are urging him to do something. And I think that’s the reason why he did what he did. And I think that that part is really unfortunate, too.
BRODIE: Matt, let me ask you about something Tony just brought up in the sense that tensions are very high. This was obviously something President Trump campaigned on doing. A lot of his voters want him to be doing this. You mentioned some of the rhetoric that critics are using. There’s also obviously a lot of fear and concern in certain communities, in immigrant communities and migrant communities about people who are both non-citizens and citizens have been swept up in some of these sweeps.
Is there a way at this point, do you think, to bring that tension down at all, or is this just kind of where we’re at for now?
BENSON: Oh, I think this is where we’re at for now. And just to be clear, I don’t believe the federal agents entered the elementary school. As I understand it, the operation was in the vicinity of the school. There’s been reporting that it was some distance from the gate of the school, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest they went into or on the school property.
But that aside, yeah, the emotions are running very high on both sides. And again, these ICE agents are carrying out the job they’ve been instructed to do. And I think we all have an interest to make sure that these agents are safe. And certainly we want to make sure also that the general public is kept safe.
So this is obviously a very difficult situation on both sides.
BRODIE: Matt, obviously, we’re a very long way away from elections next year, although people are obviously running and talking about it. How big of an issue would you expect immigration to be? Maybe on both sides, both for the right and the left?
BENSON: Well, I think it’s going to be a big issue because it’s Arizona and it’s always a big issue here. What is interesting is that the number of illegal crossings has fallen to such a level. When was the last time you saw a press conference at the border with, you know, an elected official or media? There’s just nothing to see, right now.
And so in some ways, that may actually boomerang against the Republican candidates simply because Trump has made this virtually a non-issue at the border itself.
BRODIE: Tony, what do you think? Big issue for both the Democrats and Republicans?
CANI: Yeah, I think that like in the past when we’ve talked about immigration, people were thinking about the border. And then a lot of people who are sort of speaking out in favor of immigrants are thinking more about enforcement in individual lives and people.
And one of the things that has happened because of the way that they’re doing this enforcement is the public is opening their eyes to an element of this immigration fight that they necessarily weren’t paying as much attention to before.
And one of the things that I’ve already started to see in public opinion research, internal and that kind of stuff, is that there is a backlash among voters right now in Arizona and America to the way that this has been happening.
BRODIE: Mostly Democratic voters?
CANI: No. This is something that’s pretty across the board. And so obviously Republicans are going to be more supportive of the president. But even then, you’ll hear people add caveats saying like, “They need to only be going after violent criminals. But I saw that they were at Home Depot or I heard that they were going to courts or schools or whatever.”
And so I do think that there is a big backlash. And one of the things I’m keeping an eye on is that it seems that most of the Republican officials that are really doubling down on this, I don’t think that they’re aware that that’s something that’s happening. And I think that that could end up hurting them electorally.
BRODIE: Well Matt, you mentioned the fact that the border, being as quiet as it is, could potentially in some way hurt Republicans. Do you buy into what Tony is saying, that the way that these immigration raids, the mass deportation that so many voters voted for is going, do you think that could potentially hurt Republicans, or do you think that maybe helps Republicans?
BENSON: Of course the way that the operations are carried out matters. I think what voters support is going after criminal aliens and going after people with violent records. And to the extent that they’re doing that, that’s going to be popular with 80% of the public.
But if you’re going into other populations, people that have been here for decades and don’t have a criminal record and things of that sort, or let’s say scooping up people who may not even be in the country illegally or have some sort of a visa to be here and sending them to a dark site in a foreign country like that, those kind of things, even if they happen very rarely, impact public opinion in a bad way.
BRODIE: All right guys, let’s move on to the ongoing saga between the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors and County Recorder Justin Heap. The lone Democrat on the board, Steve Gallardo, has filed a complaint with the attorney general over open meeting violations for Recorder Justin Heap.
The very short version of the background as he is trying to get support for the agreement between the supervisors and the recorder over who does what with elections and was saying that he had Gallardo’s vote, trying to get at least two other supervisors to side with him so that he could have the majority.
Tony, Gallardo is now saying that if he’s trying to cajole votes out of public meetings and texting with others, that’s a real problem — in addition to Gallardo saying that Heap is lying about the fact that Gallardo was supporting him.
CANI: Yeah, he clearly was lying about the support, which is just weird. But also it seems to be the kind of thing that Heap and the folks that run his office are doing.
Arizona has very clear and strict Open Meeting laws. And I imagine a lot of the listeners don’t really know what they are. But basically it says that if you’re going to be operating the business of government as a deliberative body, like a board or a city council, it should be done in front of the public.
And so what that means is that behind the scenes, you might imagine that elected officials are sitting down and plotting how they’re going to vote, but they’re really not supposed to. It’s supposed to be that deliberation is happening in front of the people. And that’s why things have to be on the agenda, all that kind of stuff.
And so what Gallardo is saying, basically based on the texts that Heap himself sent, is that he’s not doing that. He’s going and he’s talking to individual members and counting votes and doing these kinds of things.
And so, there’s no doubt in my mind that that’s probably what he is doing. Enforcement of Open Meeting laws is something that is often challenging because there are very important law enforcement activities, other things to work on. But I think that when it comes to the total lack of trust that the conservative Republican Board of Supervisors has with the Republican recorder, I think that that’s a thing to keep an eye on.
BRODIE: Matt, you and I have both spent a lot of time outside closed doors at the state Capitol, waiting for lawmakers who are getting their arms twisted to vote on certain things to come out. To Tony’s point, this is something that happens a lot: lawmakers, policymakers, elected officials trying to secure votes, not the public.
CANI: The Legislature has a different set of laws than these types of boards, just to be clear.
BRODIE: That is true. But does this seem problematic, that he’s texting other other elected officials, trying to get them on his side?
BENSON: That’s hard to say. And once you begin, let’s say the AG takes this up and begins an investigation. Nobody knows which way that goes. And frankly, if she starts poking around in other text messages that the recorder’s sending, who knows what else is in there?
So I think for me, the bigger issue is this is just the latest in a string of mishaps for Recorder Heap. Don’t forget his plan to send mail-in ballots to voters that weren’t on the mail-in list. Sending 83,000 voters before the election, a notice that they had to do something to ensure they were actually eligible to vote.
CANI: And then not telling the public that there was a problem with that. Like, he hid that problem. That was a big deal.
BENSON: And basically foisting that off on a third-party vendor. So it’s just, again, the latest in a string of problems with the recorder and his administration. And we’re on the eve of a big election coming up in 2026 and a lot at stake.
