The latest Tiny Desert Concer features Ugandan multi-instrumentalist Giovanni Kiyingi, who performed at Central Records in downtown Phoenix. The Show spoke with Kiyingi about his origins of his songwriting.
Full conversation
GIOVANNI KIYINGI: I come from Uganda, so church in Africa is still a big thing. The good thing in church, when service is done, the instruments are there. The drums, let’s say the balafons, let’s say the adungus. So I used to practice what I see people do during the service.
SAM DINGMAN: Tell me more about that.
KIYINGI: So if someone is playing drums, and I was like, “Oh, this is a nice one.” I tried …
(taps a rhythm with his hands)
… on my body.
DINGMAN: OK, OK.
KIYINGI: And try to replicate, try to replay that.
DINGMAN: Did anybody notice you doing this?
KIYINGI: Of course. Yeah. And from there is where I started to meet people. Like, shape you here and there. Oh, this is supposed to be like this. Oh, this is sounding like this. Oh, this has to sound like this. So eventually, that’s how different instruments come into my life.
DINGMAN: May I ask, did you feel any kind of spiritual relationship with the music, or was it just about reacting to the sound?
KIYINGI: As a kid, of course. It was just, what is going on in church? What is getting to see other people away from your home? Eventually, I developed the spiritual part of it. And a certain time in my life, I was in a seminary, so I was starting to become a priest.
DINGMAN: Really? What was interesting to you about studying at seminary?
KIYINGI: The way of living. When we meet someone, people want you to introduce, “Oh, I’ve done this. Oh, I’ve done this. I’ve done this.” No. My name is Giovanni Kiyingi, and that’s it. Just be pure.
I used to face this here in Phoenix when I just came in 2019, go to open mics trying to introduce myself. So you put your name on the roster, and then after playing is when someone says, “Wow.” This is me introducing myself.
DINGMAN: You introduce yourself through the music?
KIYINGI: Yes.
DINGMAN: Do you feel like when you are performing your music, you’re saying something about yourself that you can’t say in conversation?
KIYINGI: Of course. I was born a weak child in terms of my birth. I was very, very weak that I couldn’t play with the rest of the kids. My sisters, they could knock me down, and I was too small, too thin.
And as a result of that, I listened to a lot of music. So whenever I’m playing music, it’s like I’m going into that closet and appreciate.
DINGMAN: You’re going back to that younger version of yourself.
KIYINGI: Sometimes I was like, “Look what God has done. Look what has happened of me.”
DINGMAN: So when you started to perform your own music, it strikes me that there’s a difference between doing what you were doing as a child — where you’re sort of imitating what you saw other people do — and now making your own statements.
KIYINGI: Yes. And owning them.
DINGMAN: And owning them. Yes! So what was that like, to see how people were impacted by the music you were playing?
KIYINGI: Fast, straightforward. It was a rejection from my dad because my dad was drawing plans for houses, and he wanted me to take the same. And I was like, “Yeah, like music.” He was like, “No, music is for spoiled people. They’re drinking, they’re smoking, they’re doing. So I don’t wish my child to be in there.”
And being the only boy, so it was crazy for him.
DINGMAN: So he associated music with bad behavior.
KIYINGI: Bad behaviors. I told him, “This is what I love to do. Either way, that’s what I’m going to do.”
DINGMAN: Either way, that’s what I’m going to do. Did he eventually come around?
KIYINGI: No. No no no no. I was supposed to go to the university, and I was introduced to ethnomusicology, which is the study of traditional music in its context all over the world. Every country has their traditional music. Been to India, been to Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, France, Spain, Czech Republic. So there’s a lot of music.
They learn music the way we learn music in Africa at the bonfire, by ear. When I play this, what do you feel?
DINGMAN: Am I understanding correctly that you’re saying it was less about learning a technique and more about learning a feeling, connecting with a feeling that they were recreating?
KIYINGI: Yes. It’s from what you feel that we can shape whatever journey that we want to take, but if you don’t feel it, then you can’t contribute to it. You can’t give what you don’t have.
DINGMAN: You can’t give what you don’t have.
KIYINGI: That’s it.
DINGMAN: All right. So, Giovanni, what are you going to play for us now?
KIYINGI: I think let’s listen to “Buddu.”
(Giovanni Kiyingi plays “Buddu.”)
DINGMAN: You were talking earlier about how the music has to connect with a certain feeling. It has to be reacting to a certain feeling. Do you feel similar feelings every time you perform the songs, or do they change?
KIYINGI: No, because you can’t tame feelings. You can’t tame them and say, “Oh, I have to feel like this, this certain way at this particular time.” No, the only thing that comes in my mind is like, “This is me. Ladies and gentlemen. This is me.”
DINGMAN: Yeah, this is Giovanni.
KIYINGI: Yeah, that’s it.
DINGMAN: So recently on some of your recent albums, you have been exploring different styles than you’ve played previously. Like reggae, for example. Tell me where that came from.
KIYINGI: Reggae is conscious music. So it’s like music that has to come deep from you. And every word that is being said there is pure. But I want you to have something that when someone is somewhere, they can say, “Oh, this comes from Uganda. Oh, this is Ugandan.” So how do I contribute to the Uganda kind of sound to reggae that someone listens and says, “Oh, this is reggae. But it’s not the typical reggae that comes from the Caribbean. No, it’s not the typical reggae for Bob Marley. There’s something added to it.”
DINGMAN: Can you put that idea together for me with this other word that you’ve used a lot, which is purity? The idea of something being pure. How do you reconcile the idea of something having to change with keeping it pure?
KIYINGI: If you don’t know where you come from, then there’s no way you are going anywhere. Once I know where I come from, then I’m able to go on different journeys without losing myself.
DINGMAN: So the purity is about where you’re coming from.
KIYINGI: Who you are, where you’re coming from, where the music is coming from.
DINGMAN: Where the music is coming from, not the way you’re playing it.
KIYINGI: o. And to the rest of the world: Stay together. The world is messed up. But once we’re together, we can’t be broken. See you there.
DINGMAN: Giovanni Kiyingi, thank you very much.
KIYINGI: Thank you very much for this particular talk and chat. Hopeful you’ve enjoyed it.
DINGMAN: I have.
KIYINGI: Hopefully you get a few things.
DINGMAN: Yes. More than a few. And now we’re going to hear one more song. Tell us what you’re going to close out on.
KIYINGI: I’ll close out with “Mandela.”
(Giovanni Kiyingi plays “Mandela.”)
