KJZZ’s Friday NewsCap revisits some of the biggest stories of the week from Arizona and beyond.
To talk about the political mood following the assassination of conservative influencer Charlie Kirk, another possible ethics complaint being filed against lawmakers at the Arizona Capitol and more, The Show sat down with Paul Bentz of HighGround and Dawn Penich of Agave Strategies.
Conversation highlights
MARK BRODIE: So, guys, we have to start with, of course, the biggest story of the week: the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. And there’s going to be a lot — there has been a lot already this morning. We heard from the governor of Utah that they have a suspect in custody.
I want to focus more, though, Arizona has obviously a very sad and interesting in some ways connection to this kind of political violence, of course with former Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords being shot many, many years ago at this point.
And we seem to hear the same kinds of thoughts after these events, from politicians: “We have to think about how we’re talking. We have to turn down the rhetoric, tone down the rhetoric,” that kind of thing.
And yet, in this case, Dawn, we saw, for example, members of Congress kind of yelling at each other like over a moment of silence. We have seen members of Congress from both parties still saying the kinds of things that they were saying a week or two weeks ago. Is it possible, at this point, do you think, to tone down the rhetoric in politics?
DAWN PENICH: You know, I hate to start off the morning with such kind of a dark statement, but I do, and I think a lot of people do feel a level of despair around how we are functioning as a society that I haven’t felt, before or in a very long time.
And it kind of does beg the question of where do we go from here? What does it take? What kind of reckoning does American society need to actually want to do the platitudes that feel so empty that we always hear about: rising above and toning down rhetoric?
I think it’s true, but I agree with you. I am not, in the aftermath of this most recent gun violence, I’m not seeing that out there. And I wish I could say that I know what it takes, but I don’t know that anyone does.
BRODIE: Paul, this of course, follows not that far on the heels of the shooting in Minnesota, where state legislators were targeted and at least one was assassinated. What are we doing here?
PAUL BENTZ: Well, first of all, one thing to note is absolutely this was a tragedy, just like many of these other things were a tragedy. It’s tragic that there was a shooting in a Colorado school the same day that doesn’t hardly get any coverage, that that seems to be de rigueur at this point that we can talk about school shootings and sort of go past them and and focus on other issues. That’s incredibly tragic.
This is a mental health issue. I don’t think we’ll hear Republicans say that a lot, but unfortunately it certainly is a mental health issue in addition to a political discussion. And I think ultimately, one of the things that’s been said, I think, that’s really valid is that this comes down to an issue of contempt. It’s not even just rhetoric at this point, it is that both sides hold the other in contempt, And the language surrounding that is not that we even just disagree. It’s that I have contempt for you. You are evil, and I am righteous. And that creates a lot of this back and forth here, where you’re just not even hearing the other side. And that is what makes this violence more acceptable, unfortunately, a why people see they turn this dissatisfaction into contempt.
One of the things that Charlie Kirk did incredibly well, I think, is going on to these college campuses and recognizing that there was dissatisfaction among a portion of the young population about what these universities were doing, about what they were focused on, and trying to start that dialog.
And while it probably started in a good spot or in a spot that would have been helpful, it turned into, with social media and everything else, this item of celebrity, this item of contempt. They got more views the worse they got, the more that they turned it up. And I think that’s what has happened here and why he’s reaping what we’re getting now.
BRODIE: It’s so interesting because you hear stories — both you know, here in Arizona and in Washington D.C. — about back in the day, politicians from different parties could fight like heck on the floor of whatever chamber they were in and then go have dinner together or go have a beer together in the evening. While they disagreed about the issues, they recognized that they were all kind of members of this fairly exclusive club and at least could be friends. Maybe some of them are in in D.C. room together or something.
Dawn, based on what Paul said and what we’ve heard elsewhere, it just doesn’t seem like that happens anymore.
PENICH: No. And one of the reasons I say that I feel so much more dismayed this week is because it is sowing and deepening divisions across parties who do disagree. A number of elected officials and even just community groups have been canceling their events, all of their public events this week because of increased direct threats being called into their offices.
And even within folks who do agree with each other. So in my community on the left, there is disagreement over people who are pointing out the very real and targeted harm that Charlie Kirk and some of the rhetoric that he promoted has caused here in Arizona. And then there are also folks on the left saying this kind of violence is never OK, no matter what this person had to say.
And so even folks who agree with each other are now fighting. And that’s what happens. Martin Luther King said that violence begets violence, anger begets anger. And that’s what we are seeing across the board.
BRODIE: Paul, speaking of not toning down rhetoric, the Arizona House Democratic Caucus this week said that they were planning to file an ethics complaint against Rep. John Gillette. He’s a Republican from Kingman who had some — I won’t repeat them — but some pretty unkind things to say about Muslims.
This is not the first, sort of interim ethics complaint that we’ve been talking about in the state Legislature since the session has ended. I’m curious what you make of not only the fact that he said these things, but then when asked by a reporter about them, he kind of doubled down on them and doesn’t seem to think that there’s a problem with the things that he said.
BENTZ: Well, it speaks to the unapologetic, unapologetic nature of politics. It also speaks to our, quite frankly, our legislative district system, where most people are from safe legislative districts. He’s from an incredibly safe Republican district, his Republican base that elected him in the primary doesn’t have a problem with that type of language.
In fact, they’re anti-woke, and they’re anti- all of the DEI and everything else. And they think that this sort of language reflects that, and it’s telling it like it is. And these people get rewarded from their base.
And this happens on both sides of the aisle. This is not just a Republican issue. This is a Democrat issue where the more progressive language certainly gets them where they want to go in a lot of cases as well.
But in this case, it’s certainly one of those things that he says something, most folks don’t think it’s OK, but then it’s serving his base. And then outrage, and then he gets to go back to his base and say, “See the people that we have contempt for” — back to that contempt idea — “disagree with me. So I must be doing something right.”
BRODIE: Dawn, do you see anything coming from this?
PENICH: From the ethics complaint, you mean?
BRODIE: Yeah. In the Legislature?
PENICH: No. Probably not. We’ve had lots of instances of folks — maybe not particularly this exact anti-Islamic rhetoric — but we’ve had lots of other folks in the Legislature say abhorrent things, and nothing has happened, not even really a slap on the wrist.
And then you put it in the context of an election year and that Republicans don’t want to be beat up by the more extreme wing of the party for doing even what they know is right. No, I don’t think we’ll see anything come of this whatsoever.
BRODIE: Do you anticipate that this might have any kind of effect on how the house works next year? I have no idea if Rep. Gillette works with Democrats on issues or if they are looking to get him to sign onto bills or anything like that. But I wonder if the act of filing an ethics complaint — assuming that House Democrats follow through on what they say they’re going to do and the fact that this representative said what he said — does that affect anything?
PENICH: No. And I think that, in fact, everyone is just kind of preparing themselves for what is probably going to be one of the most divided and toxic legislative sessions that we’ve seen in a long time — which, if you know the Arizona Legislature, is really saying something. So gird yourself. It’s going to be a tough ride next year.
BENTZ: I think we’re going to see a lot of political theater next year.
BRODIE: In an election year, Paul? Come on.
BENTZ: Yeah, I know it’s hard to predict. I mean, the budget discussion was already pretty negative and nasty this year. I think it will be even worse.
I think the Republicans will bring forth a lot of the similar bills that they have in the past to try and score political points in this midterm election.
This midterm election should benefit Republicans. They overperformed in the 2024 election by a lot. There was a lack of Democratic enthusiasm. In the midterms, Republicans do even better typically in the state.
With the exception of 2022, Republicans have dominated midterms. And I think they’re looking to do that again this year. So I think that type of rhetoric, the type of bills that they’re going to bring forth are all reflective of their strategy to put the governor in a tough spot, to put their Democratic opponents in a tough spot and try to gain seats in some of these critical swing districts.
Republicans went from a one-vote majority to a larger majority in chambers. I think they’re going to try to increase that this year as well next year as well.
