Former Arizona health director recounts life full of plot twists in memoir 'You Don't Know Jack!'

Anyone who grew up here in the Valley in the 1990s might recall a memorable anti-smoking tagline, designed to gross you out: “Tobacco: the tumor-causing, teeth-staining, smelly puking habit.” The line was part of a campaign by Arizona’s health director at the time, Dr. Jack Dillenberg.

By the time he got the call from then-Gov. Fife Symington to run the health department, Dillenberg already had a fascinating life full of plot twists, from his work with a group of California yogis to his time providing free dental care while living in a straw hut in Jamaica.

Dillenberg published a memoir earlier this year called “You Don’t Know Jack,” and he spoke with The Show about what he calls his “long strange trip through the world of public health.”

The conversation began with Dillenberg’s childhood in Queens, New York, where he joined a local Boy Scout troop.

Full conversation

JACK DILLENBERG: And so I joined the troop and next thing you know, they made me senior patrol leader.

SAM DINGMAN: Yeah.

DILLENBERG: Representing all these very affluent folks, and I was the only one that wasn't. But it worked out real good. And, you know, I'm a half breed Jew. It was a Jewish troop that I didn't join.

DINGMAN: Right, right. 

DILLENBERG: That was one of the things that made it really interesting.

DINGMAN: So let me ask you about this. Let me ask you about this, because this is a very interesting part of your story. I think that, if I'm not mistaken, your father was Jewish. Your mom was Protestant. 

DILLENBERG: That's correct.

DINGMAN: And at the time, if I'm not mistaken, your brother was having a little bit more trouble with authority, shall we say? 

DILLENBERG: Yes, yes, he was. You know, he was a different guy. He and my dad didn't get along, and I think. And he was 8 years older than 7 or 8 years older than me.

DINGMAN: Yeah.

DILLENBERG: He did a lot of dope. He sold pot, and he didn't get along with my dad.

My dad did stamps and opera. That was his thing, he didn't have a baseball glove. We didn't have a catch. It wasn't your typical Queens, New York, family. And, I had to find my own way out in many regards.

DINGMAN: Yeah, well, eventually you end up at Tulane University.

DILLENBERG: Yes.

DINGMAN: And you're a New York kid. 

DILLENBERG: Yep.

DINGMAN: And now you're in the Deep South in the 1960s, and you start to really see segregation for the first time. 

DILLENBERG: Yes, yes.

DINGMAN: And that has quite an effect on you, right? 

DILLENBERG: It does, it does. It really hurt me to see how Black people were being treated. And, I had a ... Chevrolet and we were driving to a civil rights event, and we stopped in southern Alabama for breakfast with the guys in the car, and all of a sudden, this guy walked over to our table and looked at me. He had his suspenders, heavy big belly.

DINGMAN: Yeah. 

DILLENBERG: And he looked at me and I stood up, I said “yes, can I help you?”

He said, “What are you doing here?”

I said, “Well, I'm here for…”

Says “You are. Well, I think you better get out of town before I really hurt you.”

And he hit me.

DINGMAN: Oh my God.

DILLENBERG: He hit me in the stomach real hard, and I fell over you back in my seat. So we. We didn't finish our trip.

We went back and, and realized that America is in a difficult stage right then.

DINGMAN: This is a really interesting pivot point in my mind in your story, is that you know, you really come face to face with a lot of the hypocrisies in American culture. And one of the reasons that you went to dental school was to make it less likely that you were going to have to go fight in Vietnam because you had a very high draft number 

DILLENBERG: Seven.

DINGMAN: Yeah, that's pretty high. 

DILLENBERG: I said I did not want to go to Vietnam.

DINGMAN: Of course. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, but interestingly to me, after you study dentistry at NYU, you do end up enlisting in the Navy. 

DILLENBERG: In the Navy.

DINGMAN: So tell me about that transition. 

DILLENBERG: Absolutely, great question. And, you know, I was the class president and being the class president.

DINGMAN: At NYU.

DILLENBERG: At NYU in the dental school, they picked one of five people to go into the military, and they said they'd like me to join that. It would be interesting.

I said, yes, would I get to pick where I get stationed? That was my key, Sam, you know, I didn't I didn't want to go to. So I wound up they let me pick one of three sites in California.

DINGMAN: Yeah. Well, there's a part before you complete your naval service that I'm also very interested in. Which is, as I understand it, at some point, you get exposed to the writings of Richard Alpert, who later changed his name to Ram Dass. 

DILLENBERG: Yes, yes.

DINGMAN: And got very interested in his philosophies and yoga in particular. 

DILLENBERG: Yes.

DINGMAN: And you end up going to work with a guy named Swami 

DILLENBERG: Satchidananda up in Northern California.

DINGMAN: Yeah.

DILLENBERG: Swamiji.

DINGMAN: Well, what appealed to you about that? What was interesting to you? 

DILLENBERG: It was just that it was dealing with people and dealing with their core values and their basic beliefs, and realized that we can make a difference in the world.

DINGMAN: Yeah. 

DILLENBERG: And I think that was something that struck me right to my heart.

DINGMAN: Sure. Well, so one other part of your journey that I'd love to ask you about that happens shortly after this time is I know you dealt with some real personal tragedies. Your girlfriend was killed in a car crash. 

DILLENBERG: Car crash, yes.

DINGMAN: And in your period of grief after that, some friends recommend you take a trip to Jamaica.

DILLENBERG: Yes, that was great.

DINGMAN: And you go to Jamaica and you arrive in Negril, Jamaica. And you're out to dinner the first night you're there and as I understand it, you end up having an encounter that night that completely alters the course of your life. 

DILLENBERG: Yeah. No meeting Bob Marley. And I got to meet him and become his dentist. And so I was Bob Marley’s dentist in Jamaica and it was amazing.

I lived in that little house you see on the cover of the book.

DINGMAN: Yeah. 

DILLENBERG: And I built it out of leaves and things, and it's right on the sand. And I didn't take any money from people.

DINGMAN: Right. 

DILLENBERG: I got paid by the Jamaican government.

DINGMAN: Yeah, tell people. I mean you weren't just doing this, you know, ad hoc. You were working for the Jamaican health ministry.

DILLENBERG: And they loved me. They wanted me to speak to them because they saw that I was a bright guy. And then, you know, I get the call to go back to the States to come to Harvard.

DINGMAN: What was it about what you were doing in Jamaica that Harvard called you about? What were they interested in? 

DILLENBERG: They loved it. Here I was, this guy just teaching kids how to take care of people's teeth and just being down to earth because there were so many people out there that couldn't afford dental care and couldn't have access.

DINGMAN: Right. And that's the lesson you learned in Jamaica? 

DILLENBERG: That's correct. And then coming out to Arizona that was another thing that just surprised the hell out of me.

DINGMAN: Well, so let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. This is where that fateful phone call from Governor Symington comes into play, right? 

DILLENBERG: Exactly, and I never met the man. And I get a call. He says this, Jack. He said, yeah, you're the dental director, is that right? From Harvard?

I said, yes. Would you please come to my office and see me? So I said yes. I went over to his office, went up there and he said, “Jack, you don't know me, but everybody thinks you're great. I'd like you to be director of the state health department.”

It was amazing. And he gave me 5,000 employees and I brought all this stuff to the health department that wasn't there before in taking care of people, taking care of poor people and things.

DINGMAN: Well, so then as the director of the Arizona Health department, you, among other things, come up with these very memorable anti-tobacco ad campaigns.

You came up with the slogan.

DILLENBERG: Tobacco, the tumor causing, teeth staining, smelly, puking habit.

DINGMAN: Yes, exactly

DILLENBERG: Correct, that’s the one.

DINGMAN: What do you think was effective about that slogan? 

DILLENBERG: I think that came out of nowhere and just got people to think of reality. They didn't realize that tobacco was so bad for them.

DINGMAN: Yeah, there's something so blunt about that slogan.

DILLENBERG: Absolutely.

DINGMAN: Let me ask you as a last question, doctor. 

DILLENBERG: Sure.

DINGMAN: There's this recurring theme in your story of people just kind of say, like, “you know, I think I want that guy to be in charge." What do you think it is about you? 

DILLENBERG: I think they appreciate my honesty. They appreciate my commitment to help everyone. I'm not trying to just help rich people. I look out there now, and you got people all they want to do is help the wealthy.

DINGMAN: Yeah. 

DILLENBERG: You know what I mean? And help white people or whatever might be a priority. And I just, I want to make sure that America can be the great country that it was and will be again.

DINGMAN: Well, the book is “You Don't Know, Jack, My Long, Strange Trip Through The World of Public Health” And I've been speaking with the subject of that book, Dr. Jack Dillenberg.

Dr. Jack Dillenberg, thank you for this conversation. 

DILLENBERG: Thank you so much. I so appreciate you taking the time and doing this. And please know, Sam if ever I can help with anything, the price is right.