Phoenix Police Chief Giordano asks community for time and trust as officer-involved shootings rise

Nine people have died in the 15 officer-involved shootings that have happened involving Phoenix police officers so far this year. The majority of them have happened since the new police chief, Matt Giordano, took over this summer.

Activists cried foul about the upward trend and, now, the department says it’s committed to improvement — and transparency.

Giordano has expressed his deep concern and issued a public list of reforms.

Politics

Phoenix police shot 8 people over 6 weeks. Chief says more training is needed

Nicole LaHendro

Police Chief Matt Giordano says he recognizes the concern the shootings have caused after serving a little more than a month at the helm.

Listen • 0:43

Full conversation

MATT GIORDANO: You know, it's always concerning and it's concerning to me, but it's also concerning to the community. And I want to make sure the community understands that we're a transparent organization. We're always looking for ways to improve.

And when I say concern, it doesn't mean that someone necessarily something wrong. It's just I understand there's a concern there that we need to look into that. We need to look a little bit deeper and make sure that we understand exactly how the incident occurred, if there's anything we could have done differently and if there's anything we do differently in the future to hopefully not have to engage in lethal force.

LAUREN GILGER: So you've announced some continued reforms here, including a department-wide refresher on use-of-force policies, expansion of less-than-lethal tools, a new advanced training review process within 30 days of any critical incident.

I want to ask you about another aspect of this. You've said that you want to incentivize more officers to become CIT certified. This is crisis intervention training. It helps people kind of deescalate crisis situations without resorting to that kind of lethal force you're talking about. I've attended one of these trainings as a journalist. They're really interesting. I think the data shows they're really effective.

I know you have lots of experience with the kind of training of officers. That's what you did before you took over the department recently. I mean, I wonder what's the calculation in terms of what trainings are required of officers, which are mandatory, which are voluntary, like this one. Should this one be required of officers?

GIORDANO: You know, that's something I've struggled with forever, because you can never stress the importance of effective communication, especially in a crisis situation. But you have to have the right personality for it. You have to be the right person. There are some people that just — that's not their comfort. They can talk, but they're not maybe as empathetic as they could be. You want the right person to go to that training to understand it and reap the benefits of it.

So, again, I don't want to make it mandatory. But I want to make it as attractive as possible to as many people in our department because, again, it is an effective strategy. Actually, when I was here before, in my prior time with Phoenix and actually a little bit of my time with MCSO, I used to do the introduction to that 40-hour class. Fully recognized the benefits of it. As well as when I was here as a commander in Phoenix, I started what I believe still is the first full-time crisis intervention team. And we ultimately had two teams that do that.

GILGER: This all comes obviously as the Trump administration has dropped this department of just investigation into the Phoenix Police Department, which took place under the Biden administration, and really slammed the department for use of force, for officer-involved shootings, for violations of civil rights. The list goes on. Before Trump took office, lots of folks thought the department was heading toward federal oversight.

And lots of police leaders at the time, city leadership, had really argued that this was not the right way to go, that it wasn't necessary, that the department could make these reforms themselves, that they had already begun a lot of those reforms. Where, first of all, does that process stand now at Phoenix PD?

GIORDANO: Well, Lauren, I don't agree that we are headed towards federal oversight. I don't. I know where the process was, but again, I'll digress from that. But under me, under my leadership, under my direction — and I believe it — a departments should always look to improve, should always look for ways to provide a better level of service to the community.

And, again, that report was not lost on me. Although I wasn't working here at the time when that came out, I read it. I actually wasn't even working here during the period of time it covered. But I read every page of that multiple times. And I took a lot of that to heart, and I took a lot of that personally. And it's upsetting to think that there's members of the community that feel that way about the police department. And I want to do everything in my power to ensure that we provide the best level of service, the best trained officers, to make sure that we're meeting the expectations of the community that we serve.

So we are continuously going to improve, continuously review what we do currently and where we can go in the future.

GILGER: Are there benchmarks you're heading toward, aiming toward? Like, have you been able to look at a list of reforms that you took over when you took over the departments and say, "Yeah, we've done this, we're on the track for this one." That kind of thing?

GIORDANO: Yeah. What we're starting to look at now is compliance, and I learned this my short time with MCSO. You can create wonderful policies, you can put out the best training in the world, but if you're not doing any compliance on the back end of it to make sure it's being adhered to, it's a waste of time.

So we are really putting in now — we're putting in compliance measures and compliance features, whether that's mandatory review of body-worn cameras, mandatory review of all use-of-force incidents, mandatory reviews of departmental reports. We're looking at all of that to make sure that we're not just telling things on the front end, we're making sure it's getting done on the back end.

GILGER: Lots of advocates, I'm sure you are aware, have remained skeptical that the department can reform itself. Now you have this new kind of spate of officer-involved shootings in the last six weeks or so. I wonder, what's your message to the community, to those who are skeptical of this, that you can make these changes on your own when they, you know, will point to things like this and say, "It's not happening"?

GIORDANO: Yeah, no. And again, I go back to understanding their concerns and what I've been doing now in the two months that I've been here, I've been going out to as many community events as I can. I would love to go to community meetings where all everyone tells me is how great the Phoenix Police Department is. And that's wonderful. It makes me feel good, and we're doing a good job.

But I get just as much out of community meetings where I go and they're dissatisfied with the level of service. Because then we can engage in those tough conversations. Because we will never get better if we don't engage in those tough conversations. Those are hard to hear. It's hard to hear where we have failed to meet someone's expectations. But I feel that's my duty, that's my responsibility to go out and listen to those. And then take proactive steps to eliminate those in the future.

So all I can ask of the community is give me time, trust that I want this to be a phenomenal place to live. I believe it is a phenomenal place to live. They can always be better. And I really do care about the community that we serve, and I want to make sure they see the Phoenix Police Department in the same light that I see the police department.

GILGER: Let me ask you lastly about immigration and your department's cooperation or not with with ICE and immigration authorities. There are always questions about this, especially right now as we're seeing ICE raids. We're seeing, you know, an attempt by the Trump administration to carry out the largest deportation in U.S. history. And lots of fear in immigrant communities. I wonder, do you worry that. That in light of that, that folks won't call law enforcement, won't trust you or anybody in a uniform, for that matter?

GIORDANO: A hundred percent. Actually, literally, earlier this week, I had a meeting with the Hispanic Advisory Board, and that was a big concern they had. And we talked at length, and I asked them to help be our ambassadors. I've been very clear. There is no place in municipal law enforcement for immigration enforcement. That is a federal government responsibility, and we want no part of that.

I want everyone in this community to know that if they need the police department, they should call us. We will come out, we will help them. That's what we're here for, and I want them to feel comfortable doing that. I recognize the concern they have. I'm trying to overcome that. I'm trying to push that message out as far and wide as I can.

But for me, it's a travesty if someone in this community needs assistance, needs help, and they're scared to call us. Again, I think the system has failed at that point. Because, again, I think sometimes, often others will prey on people when they don't think they'll call the police to report a crime. And I don't want that to happen.

LAUREN GILGER: Yeah. All right, we will leave it there for now. That is Matt Giordano, Phoenix police chief, joining us. Thank you, Chief, for coming on. I really appreciate it.

GIORDANO: Thank you, Lauren. I appreciate the opportunity.

LAUREN GILGER: And when it comes to that crisis intervention training we spoke about, Phoenix PD tells me it has trained a total of 569 officers in it. That's out of about 2,500 sworn officers. I also asked the chief about his commitment to collaboration with the Office of Accountability and Transparency after its former director quit last year, raising questions about its independence. He told me he's committed to keeping that form of oversight independent and is working with its new director.