This Arizona Republican wants to make ivermectin available without a prescription

Arizona State Rep. Nick Kupper, a Republican, recently sponsored a bill to make ivermectin available over the counter.

The drug, which became a source of controversy during the COVID-19 pandemic, is an anti-parasitic which many came to believe could treat the virus effectively.

Medical professionals broadly dispute that claim, but the drug’s popularity has persisted, thanks to proposals like Kupper’s bill.

Jessica Boehm has been reporting on this for Axios, and she joined The Show to talk more.

Full conversation

SAM DINGMAN: Jessica, good morning.

JESSICA BOEHM: Good morning.

DINGMAN: So let's start, if we could, with the most important context here. Ivermectin is primarily used to treat livestock, right?

BOEHM: Correct. In the United States, it's pretty much — there are limited human uses — but for, for the vast majority, it is used as a livestock drug. It's used for deworming horses, cattle, things like that.

There are limited FDA-approved uses in humans, as you mentioned, it's an anti-parasitic drug, so worm related. It can also be used in a topical cream for things like lice, rosacea and a select number of other skin conditions. But that's really the extent of its FDA-approved use in humans.

DINGMAN: And we should be clear what is the medical consensus on ivermectin as it pertains to humans outside of those particular cases?

BOEHM: Almost every major medical institution has come out and said that, you know, this is not something that should be used outside of its FDA-approved uses.

There have been many warnings and a concern that going against that guidance could result in pretty serious illnesses.

DINGMAN: Yeah, I was looking up a 2021 American Medical Association report on this, and it warned that using ivermectin against medical professionals' advice can result in, quote, "nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, decreased consciousness," which seems bad.

BOEHM: Yeah.

DINGMAN: "Confusion, hallucinations, seizures, coma and death."

So let's talk about what this bill proposed by Rep. Kupper would actually do.

BOEHM: So this would make the ivermectin that is specifically dosed for human consumption available at or allowed to be sold at pharmacies in Arizona without a prescription. So it would be an over the counter drug the way that, you know, Tylenol is currently.

DINGMAN: And would this be a different version of ivermectin?

BOEHM: So this would be the type of ivermectin that I mentioned, for example, would be used for humans, right.

Like if you were actually prescribed this drug for a worm condition. The concern is that there are people — and if you talk to, you know, livestock stores across this country and, and in the Valley, they will tell you that there are folks that are buying the horse version of this drug and figuring out the dosage or trying to figure out a dosage that would be appropriate for humans.

So the counterpoint to this is, I guess if people are using this anyway, this may be a safer way for it to occur.

DINGMAN: Kupper has said that he is introducing this measure in response to interest from his constituents.

What are some of the reasons he's given to counter this kind of prevailing medical opinion about the dangers of ivermectin?

BOEHM: Yeah, I think his opinion on it, as he's expressed, is that, you know, caffeine can be bad for you in high levels. Vaping, smoking cigarettes, and these are things that we allow to allow people to make a choice on and, and that it's not really appropriate for the government to decide that other things individuals couldn't make their own health choices on.

DINGMAN: When I read your story, Jessica, I thought the timing of this is kind of surprising since we're no longer in the midst of a widespread COVID-19 outbreak.

Do we know what accounts for the continued focus culturally on this drug?

BOEHM: Yeah, no, it's a really good point. And I think that the, the COVID pandemic really just bursted open like an underlying level of the population who had extreme skepticism about traditional medicine and were more interested in these experimental type of things.

And I think that that has continued regardless of the fact that we're not like in the midst of like a actual pandemic at this moment. And then, I think, you know, you look at Health Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. He has encouraged experimentation in the same ways and to look outside of the status quo of medicine.

So I don't think it's all that surprising that there are people who have continued to beat the drum on this drug despite its lack of medical evidence and actually medical evidence to the contrary that it may actually not be good for humans outside of its prescribed uses.

DINGMAN: Just about a minute left here, Jessica. If Kupper's bill were to pass, which we should say it probably won't, is it likely that it would actually work?

BOEHM: Yeah, this is a good point. And this is something I talked to the public health association about, as you mentioned, this would require the Democratic governor to sign it.

Is that going to happen? Probably not, right. But even, let's just say for sake of argument, it does. There are, it's unlikely that the national chain pharmacies that most of us go to are going to, you know, get their corporate lawyers to sign off on allowing a non-FDA approved drug to be on over the counter shelves.

So I would say that you might see some local, independently owned pharmacies, like, go this route if this were to be approved. But CVS, Walgreens? It feels unlikely.