SAM DINGMAN: For the last couple weeks here on The Show, I’ve been exploring the various ways people find friendship and community here in the Valley — a place where it’s not always easy to do that.
Today, I continue my investigation.
Amanda Brennan moved to metro Phoenix a few years ago after nine years in LA. She has family here: her dad, his wife and two younger sisters.
AMANDA BRENNAN: The older of the two is having some issues, and my background is, I have my master's in counseling. And so I came kind of back to be there, to be a support system.
DINGMAN: Coming here was a big adjustment for Amanda. In LA, she'd been living on her own in an apartment. She had a job, friends.
But when she got here, she found herself living in the suburbs of a city where it's notoriously difficult to find community. Especially, Amanda discovered, for people like her.
BRENNAN: I'll be 36 in about a month, but I'm not married, never been married, no kids. And so it just kind of puts me in a different place than most of the women I meet who are my age. They're either married and, or have kids or divorced and have kids.
And I don't mind. Like, I have a bunch of girlfriends who they bring their kids. It's totally fine. I'm not against kids. But there's some things, like I also could be like, "Hey, I want to go on a weekend trip," and I don't have to think about anything. I can just book it and go. So it's like a, just a different place in life.
DINGMAN: Amanda does have friends here, but she met a lot of them playing in a flag football league, and many of them are much younger than she is.
BRENNAN: At football, the joke is I'm either team mom or big sis. So it's like, it's just a different role and it's not something I don't enjoy or anything like that.
But it's like when I have an issue, a lot of them are not on the maturity level to help me through my life stuff.
DINGMAN: Yeah, what are they going to tell you?
BRENNAN: Yeah. I'm the only one who owns a house. I'm the only one who has, like, an actual career, not just like a job. So there's just a lot of things where it's like they can't really relate and they try and they're great and I love them all dearly. But it's just, it's hard to find in that environment someone who kind of relates on the same level that I'm on.
I'm not alone, I'm not lonely, but it's also, sometimes I'm like, "Oh, I want people to be on the same level I am." I want to go to a nice dinner, have a few cocktails and go home. I don't want to stay out till 2 a.m. anymore. But then with my friends who are younger, they're kind of still in that stage of life.
DINGMAN: I feel like what you're hitting on is something I hadn't thought about previously. But it's like their identity is like the social default in a way. Like culturally we know what to do with people who are in their 20s and are just figuring it out in a new city. Cities are built and social environments are built for those people's priorities.
Same goes for parents or people in relationships. That's kind of what a lot of stuff is built around.
But for a person like yourself who has achieved these various other levels of traditional cultural establishment, it's like it's hard to find personhood.
BRENNAN: Yeah, that's a really good way of saying it. It's just interesting too because it's like, even I'm not personally super religious, but I have friends are and my family, I grew up that way.
But even the church groups, they have couples groups. They have young adult groups that usually end at 28 or 30. They have like women's, but then it tends to be more older women. And again, it's women who are married who have kids.
It's just a different — there's not really anyone for like, "Hey, I'm 35 and single with no kids. Where are my people at?"
DINGMAN: Recently, a company called Timeleft has been targeting people like Brennan on social media. Their ads show 30-something folks laughing and toasting at cocktail bars and restaurants.
When you sign up for Timeleft, their app asks you a series of personality questions. Things like: Are your opinions usually guided by logic and facts or emotions and feelings? Do you consider yourself more of a smart person or a funny person?
They also ask for your zodiac sign.
Once you enter all that information, Timeleft matches you with a random group of people for dinner at a local restaurant.
Not long after they launched here in Phoenix, I went to one of these dinners.
KIMBERLY: Hi, I’m Kimberly!
DAN: Hi, Dan.
KIMBERLY: Nice to meet you.
FARAH: I’m Farah.
DAN: Nice to meet you.
SAM: I’m Sam, the radio reporter they might’ve told you about? Just to let you know, the microphones are on.
DAN: OK.
DINGMAN: On a warm September night, I sat around a table at a high-end pizzeria with Kimberly, Dan, Derek, Farah and Raquel. Everyone was in their 30s or 40s.
I was the only married person. Everybody ordered a drink.
KIMBERLY: So yeah, we'll need some wine. I mean, I don't know about y'all.
DINGMAN: Everyone else had been to at least one other Timeleft dinner. They had various reasons for signing up.
Some were relieved to find an app that connects them to strangers that isn't centered on dating. Some were sick of the isolation of remote work. And in Kimberly's case, she missed the sense of spontaneity she felt before her friends had young children at home.
KIMBERLY: You're like, in four months, when are you free? And you're like, that's not fun.
Those are the friends that everybody has. You're like, I love you, when can I see you? And you're like, I don't know. It's a few months when we have two days free. And you're like, OK, I guess I'll take it.
Versus just like, when you're on your own and it's just dinner, you're like, "Oh, yeah, Wednesday. That sounds perfect."
DINGMAN: As much as everybody seemed grateful to be out with a friendly group of interesting people, they spent the first hour or so of the Timeleft dinner talking about Timeleft.
Before you get to your dinner, the app arms you with a series of conversational prompts.
RAQUEL: What do you y’all think about the icebreaker questions? Has that been effective?
FARAH: So, we didn’t even use them.
KIMBERLY: Yeah, same. All the guys were like, they’re kind of silly. They were like, “We could …” One lady was like, “I mean, I wouldn’t mind doing ‘em.” And I was like, “we can just make up our own, or just start chatting about life stuff …”
DINGMAN: Little by little, the conversation finally turned to some familiar Phoenix tropes. People started talking about why they moved here, where they live, where they like to hang out. Or don't.
RAQUEL: I refuse to go downtown, because I don’t want to pay parking!
KIMBERLY: I’m pretty sure downtown is for the young ones.
DAN: There’s an art to downtown Phoenix parking — we get a couple glasses of wine going, I’m happy to share some tips.
DINGMAN: Even though the conversation was starting to flow a bit more naturally, I was a little worried that people were holding back because of the presence of my microphones. So when the next round of drinks arrived, I decided to offer an icebreaker question of my own.
What, I asked was, everyone's relationship to intuition?
Because I'm just hearing we've all ended up here in sort of interesting ways. Like, how much does intuition, how much do you trust it?
For a moment, it seemed like I had singlehandedly killed the conversation. But it turned out people were just thinking:
DAN: How deep do you want to go with the mics on?
No, in all sincerity, I grew up in the Midwest, and you get it conditioned out of you as a male to not trust your intuition, and you get it hammered into you to be ...
DINGMAN: Dan's comment led to a pretty robust exchange about what the world expects from men and women.
Kimberly told a story about being eight years into a career in the fashion industry and waking up one day and realizing it was turning her into a judgmental person, a version of herself she didn't want to be.
So she quit the job and decided to reinvent herself as a hiker. The first year after she quit, she hiked 2,300 miles on her own. Now she works for a travel company that takes groups of women on hiking trips all over the world.
KIMBERLY: I'm always like, if you don't like your life, your husband, your partner — just don't have them anymore.
Like, life is very short. Just be happy. Happiness is the key to a lot of things. They're like, oh, it's so easy to say that. I'm like, I mean, it is easy to say that, but I've changed my life a few times now to get happier, and I'm probably one of the happiest people that I know. Like, in general. Like, I wake up pretty happy every day.
DINGMAN: The second hour of the dinner went much faster. Before long, the servers were dropping off our checks. Everyone's Timeleft apps lit up with a suggestion for a nearby bar.
I told the group I was turning off the mics. Derek grinned.
DEREK: Once the mic's off, what happens? What comes out?!
DINGMAN: Yeah, that's going to be interesting.
At the bar, the conversation kept flowing, even though there wasn't an app or an interviewer asking questions.
MARK BRODIE: Sounds like an interesting experience you had there with that group.
DINGMAN: I have to say, great conversation, and pizza was pretty good, too.
BRODIE: That's a real win-win. Good company, good pizza. Tough to beat that.
DINGMAN: Words to make your life around.
-
Recently, a company called Timeleft has been targeting 30-something folks on social media, showing attendees laughing and toasting at cocktail bars and restaurants. -
For the last couple weeks, The Show's Sam Dingman has been exploring the various ways people find friendship and community here in the Valley — a place where it’s not always easy to do that. -
Jalen lives and works here in Phoenix — he moved here about two and a half years ago. His conversation club is now in its fourth month — and Jalen takes it very seriously. -
If you spend enough time scrolling through TikTok, you might stumble into a curious corner of the algorithm: people making videos of themselves openly asking the internet to help them find friends
