Her uncles were convicted of 1919 Navajo Nation shooting. This new book sets the record straight

MARK BRODIE: In 1919, trader Charles Hubbell of the Hubbell Trading Post family was shot and killed on the Navajo Nation.

Two Navajo men were convicted of the murder. They were the sons of a Navajo man known as Gunshooter. But subsequent research, including oral stories, show problems with the case and how it was litigated.

That research is contained in the new book "The Sons of Gunshooter: A Navajo Resistance Story." It has two authors: former journalist Matt Fitzsimons and Dorothy Denetclaw, who is Navajo and is also the granddaughter of Gunshooter and the niece of the men involved in the shooting.

The Show spoke with both of them and asked Fitzsimons what drew him to the story.

Full conversation

MATT FITZSIMONS: Sure. I had been looking into the history of the Hubbells, and a lot of people in the Southwest are familiar with Hubbell Trading Post. And the Hubbells were very prominent family of traders, and they've always been characterized as these wonderful, benevolent folks.

And in researching my first book, I came across a lot of references connecting them to some of the worst atrocities of the Long Walk. So I thought, here's, here's kind of an interesting gap between the truth and the myth. And in the course of the research, I came across a, a case involving a shooting where J.L. Hubbell's brother Charlie was shot to death in Arizona in 1919. And Dorothy's uncles were arrested in that case.

And right from the start, what I saw in the accounts that were in the press and in various books didn't sound right to me. And so I reached out and got a hold of Dorothy and and asked her if she was up for reinvestigating the case.

MARK BRODIE: Dorothy, what appealed to you about reinvestigating this case?

DOROTHY DENETCLAW: Hopeful to tell what my father told me in Navajo. He told me stories about everything that happened with his family, and going back to 1840s history. And then he talked to me, and one of it was the Hubbell, where his brothers shot Hubbell.

And I was ready to go and I told, I told Matt everything, and he took it from there.

MARK BRODIE: How closely to what you were able to find through the research, Dorothy, was what your father had told you? Like, had, had he been pretty accurate in the stories that he had told you?

DOROTHY DENETCLAW: I was — I never saw an Anglo, I've never heard an English word while I was a child. All the way up to 9 years old. And he — until I was put in boarding school.

So he told me everything. He didn't go to school, and so every story he told was in Navajo with no paperwork, nothing to back it up. He just told us the story, and that's what I've — I got interested, so I started writing, I started finding out. But I, I didn't have anything to back my story up. No, until I, I told Matt everything.

MARK BRODIE: Matt, what did it mean to you and to the project to have some of these first- or second-person accounts from people who were related to the sort of the, the protagonists of the story?

MATT FITZSIMONS: Oh, Mark, it's crucial. We've been in our book talks, I've been bringing along some books, other books that discuss the case. And going through them and they all tell these wildly inaccurate and wildly different versions of what happened.

And that's the case for a lot of Diné studies. It's only been in the last 30 years that Diné people themselves and Diné scholars are presenting the history. So we're really in the early stages of kind of going back and revisiting a lot of these stories.

And you asked Dorothy how closely the evidence matched up with the account her family gave her. It, it matched up exactly. I'll, I'll give you an example is Dorothy told me that the posse was able to trail her uncles because one of the horses was missing a shoe. And we were able to corroborate that. We were able to find exactly which shoe was missing, it's in the book. So there's no daylight at all between the archival evidence and and what Dorothy's family has been saying for the last 100 years. It's the books written by outsiders and the newspaper articles that were wildly off the mark.

MARK BRODIE: Dorothy, among the stories that your father would tell you, how big of a role did this particular incident play in that? Like, was this a, a big part of family lore for you when you were growing up?

DOROTHY DENETCLAW: Yes, my father told us the Navajo way of life and what, you know, what our forefathers taught. The ethics is what really held the family together. And when this shooting took place, he was already there, there, that played a lot in the why it happened and everything. And my father talked about it, but they just believe in the, in their spiritual beliefs, in their ceremonial ways. And that's what carried them through.

MARK BRODIE: Matt, you mentioned that, you know, a lot of folks in this part of the world have heard of Hubbell Trading Post or maybe heard of, of the family in other ways.

I'm curious, based on your conversations with Dorothy and the other research you've done, how has that sort of changed your perspective on their role in sort of the history of the West and of Arizona and sort of, you know, settling this part of the country, Western settlement of this part of the country?

MATT FITZSIMONS: Well, certainly, I think the Hubbells were more predatory than they've been made out to be.

On the other hand, though, really the, the interesting thing was once I met Dorothy, the, the focus of the book became less about them and much more about her family, you know, her grandfather Gunshooter, in addition to being a very prominent medicine man, was one of the first police officers in Leupp. And as she mentioned, this, the ethics and the principles that got them through the struggles, I think really in a lot of ways, this book became the story of how they preserved that and preserved their lifeways against the onslaught of colonization.

As far as Hubbell Trading Post goes, a lot of people say, "Well, what do you think of Hubbell Trading Post?" You know, the — I think the signage could use some work and, and some recentering on the community. But if you go there, the rangers already center the narrative on on the community. The rangers are all Diné. And you can walk in and see people buying goods, still speaking Diné Bizaad. And the art is beautiful. So I think if you just go to Hubbell Trading Post and you focus on the community and the art, and the incredible culture that's been preserved, it's still a place to go and celebrate.

MARK BRODIE: Dorothy, what kinds of things did your father tell you about your uncles, about the people who were involved in the shooting?

DOROTHY DENETCLAW: Well, one of, one of the key things that everybody knows is that the trader that was put there wanted a store of his own, and he was an alcoholic. And so when the two boys came to trade, they were raised being honest, their father was and everything, so they came in and they, they did everything. "We want our change back." The trader didn't give it, and then it ended up in this squabble where he ran to the back and got a gun and shot first. And then the older one reached in and got a gun from the shelf that he was standing at, and he went and shot the trader. He was all, the trader was already drunk.

MARK BRODIE: Dorothy, I'm wondering if some part of working on this project was maybe — and I hope this isn't insulting in any way — but I wonder if it's sort of a spiritual connection for you back to generations of your family who are, I presume, not with us anymore.

DOROTHY DENETCLAW: Yes, yes, yes. We live, I was taught that we live with spirit all around us, in plants. We believe in Mother Nature, Mother Earth and Father Sun. That comes from these medicine men. So, our spiritual connection to Mother Earth is a living — Mother Earth lives. And there's spirits everywhere that lives with us, including our forefathers.

MARK BRODIE: Matt, I'm wondering what you hope people who read this book take away from it, especially sort of going back to what you said earlier about some of the misconceptions that people had about the Hubbells and sort of what they were about.

MATT FITZSIMONS: I think, you know, I think the history is still wonderful if you look at it in the light of all that's still here, you know. The Hubbells are gone, but the artwork is still here, the culture's still here. Dorothy's still speaking her language, you know, her family was able to successfully maintain their lifeways against this 100-year onslaught. And so I think that gives us a lot to celebrate.

MARK BRODIE: Matt Fitzsimons is a former journalist and co-author of the book "The Sons of Gunshooter: A Navajo Resistance Story." Dorothy Denetclaw is also a co-author of the book and is the granddaughter of Gunshooter.

KJZZ's The Show transcripts are created on deadline. This text is edited for length and clarity, and may not be in its final form. The authoritative record of KJZZ's programming is the audio record.

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