WARNING: This conversation may not be appropriate for all listeners.
Rachel Dretzin’s follow up Netflix documentary to “Keep Sweet: Pray Obey” follows a couple as they capture footage of a new self-proclaimed prophet of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints: Samuel Bateman.
Bateman is serving prison time now for sex crimes against his many underaged “wives.” He convinced them he was the new FLDS prophet after Warren Jeffs was put behind bars.
In “Trust Me: The False Prophet,” cult expert Christine Marie and her filmmaker husband, Tolga Katas, gain the trust of Bateman and his wives, nine of whom were minors, and capture evidence of his sex crimes against them.
The Show spoke with Dretzin more about the new documentary.
Full conversation
RACHEL DRETZIN: The footage that's featured in the most of the documentary was was filmed by Christine Marie and Tolga Katas, who are a married couple, who are among the only outsiders to move into Short Creek before I would say 2020.
I mean, there were just very few people from outside of the community moving in, and not only did they move into the community full-time, but they they devoted themselves to building trust and friendship with people both in and out of the FLDS.
And so, they had a a very rare opportunity in that they were able to engage in a meaningful way with people in a in a very, very closed community that generally speaking doesn't open itself up to outsiders.
And with Sam Bateman, they managed to get even deeper, and so it was just, you know, despite the fact that the FLDS has received a lot of coverage in the media, there's been very little footage that has the rawness and the intimacy of theirs.
LAUREN GILGER: So, let's back up and just talk about Samuel Bateman and the the kind of world that that he created, the way that he convinced people that he was essentially the new prophet. Tell us a little bit about him. He's in prison now.
RACHEL DRETZIN: Sam is in prison for 50 years, which is essentially life because he's in his 50s. He grew up as a member, relatively low-level member of the FLDS, no particular notoriety, but and he had a actually — interestingly, we don't get into this in the series, but he had a traumatic brain injury in a car accident he was in when he was much younger, which may have some impact on his somewhat delusional sort of mental state.
But he when Warren Jeffs went to prison, Sam began to amass followers. Initially he did not say he was a new prophet, he made people think that he had special access to Warren in prison, because Warren was still seen as a prophet, but then over time, he began to tell the people that believed in him that that he was a new prophet and that Warren, they have a term called translated, which essentially means someone is, you know, able to speak through you. And that's what he said Warren was doing. And, there were about 50 people from three separate families who became acolytes and followers.
LAUREN GILGER: And, he took on many wives, many of whom were underage, and who, you know, were sexually abused essentially.
RACHEL DRETZIN: Yeah, so there were three men, male followers of Sam who had multiple wives and children, daughters, and part of their devotion involved giving their wives and daughters over to Sam. And so, he gathered about over 20 wives, and nine of those were underage, some as young as 9 or 10 years old. Right. And, yes, he was, it's come out in, in court documents what Sam was doing, which is just horrific, but involved sexual abuse of all of them on a, on a daily basis.
LAUREN GILGER: Right. So, you have released this new docuseries, this footage is out there. It sounds like you have talked to some of the women involved in it since, and and have tried to sort of prepare them for this because, you know, they're now the star of this Netflix series. What's that been like? What are those conversations like?
RACHEL DRETZIN: Well, it really depends on on who the conversations are with. I mean, with [Naomi “Nomz” Bistline], who is the wife of Sam's who participated most extensively in the documentary, we worked with her for some time to prepare her for what was to come because, you know, while we didn't know the series was going to land as hugely as it has, it is a, it is a big event in someone's life when overnight they're, you know, suddenly on Netflix around the world and particularly for someone from the kind of background that Naomi has.
So, we really worked with her, she she had some counseling, we we talked a lot, we we talked to her about, you know, all sorts of things that, you know, would help her anticipate what the reaction would be. But, of course, you know, you can't you can't really anticipate it.
I would say it's been a really positive experience for her. She was very isolated, still is very isolated in that community but, she's gotten such an outpouring of love and support from people all over the world that I think it's really buoyed her and made her feel even more strongly that she made the right decision in coming forward, which was not an easy decision.
Julia, who was the mother of, of five of Sam's wives, is still a member of the FLDS, and so she's much less — Naomi has has left the group, the church, Julia is still very much a part of it. And so, she's much more sheltered from the media and from the impact that the series has had. I have had contact with her, really lovely contact with her but, for the most part, I think she wants to stay very private, which I respect.
LAUREN GILGER: Yeah. So, some of the people involved in this have left the church or, you know, at least gotten out of the grips of of Sam Bateman, but some are not. You said that some of them still talk to them today, even as he's in prison?
RACHEL DRETZIN: Yeah, actually, the majority of the adult women, and by adult I mean over 18, who were married to Sam are still, at least as of the series kind being released, were still followers of Sam's. And, many of them living together still.
The nine, nine minors who who were married to Sam have all because they were separated from the rest of the the women, they all quote unquote woke up and testified against him and have for the most part been able to live successfully outside of the group. But the adults are still very caught up in it.
LAUREN GILGER: Yeah. So, I want to ask you lastly, Rachel, about Short Creek, right? Because it's it's an interesting moment for this place, which is very interesting in itself. I know that I've interviewed folks in Short Creek who are who are trying really hard to move the town beyond the FLDS Church, its crimes, its, you know, controversy.
They're trying to rebrand as a tourist destination right now. And, and you know, most people, lots of people at least in the town are no longer members of the FLDS Church. Have you spoken to folks there? I know you spent a lot of time there, like who are worried about, you know, being dragged back into this?
RACHEL DRETZIN: Yeah, I mean, so it's an ongoing issue and one that I really sympathize with. I mean, I think, you know, there's been so much media scrutiny of this tiny little community, and there were many years where there were just reporters, you know, driving through with cameras, and they they felt like animals in the zoo, you know. And, I think it's very hard for the community to get out from under its reputation.
That said, I really tried in this documentary to humanize these people in prairie dresses who we tend to look at as, as alien creatures, you know. I think that not only Julia, but several of the other women who are still members of the FLDS, who participate in the documentary show just how different they are than the stereotypes that we put on them. And I hope that it contributes to a little bit more of a dimensional perspective on what it means to be a fundamentalist Mormon, you know, and a member of this community.
But, it's just a it's a reality that there has been one horrific story after another coming out of this place. It's also gotten, I would say, Short Creek has gotten some really good coverage of some of the changes they've made. There was a terrific podcast about the town that came out a few years ago that really looked closely at some of the changes the town is making, that are that are very real, you know. So, I empathize, I understand that it's it's a frustrating position to be in.
LAUREN GILGER: Yeah. All right, we'll leave it there. Rachel Dretzin, the new film is on Netflix, it's called "Trust No One: The False Prophet." Rachel, thank you very much for coming on the show, I appreciate it.
RACHEL DRETZIN: Thanks for having me.
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