LAUREN GILGER: If you’ve ever watched our state Legislature in session, you might notice something you don’t hear that often in American society anymore: A prayer.
SPEAKER: If we can get everybody onto the floor. Senate will please come to order. Please stand for the prayer by Senator Shope and remain ...
LAUREN GILGER: Every time the state House or Senate comes to order, they say a prayer.
T.J. SHOPE: Thank you Madame President. If everyone could please bow their head and pray in the way they would like — Thomas More counselor of law and statesmen of integrity and merry martyr and the most human of saints, pray that, for the glory of God and in the pursuit of His justice, I may be trustworthy with confidences, keen in study, accurate in analysis, correct in conclusion, able in judgement, loyal to clients, honest with all, courteous to adversaries, — yes, even on this floor.
LAUREN GILGER: It’s a fitting intro for a legislative body that is significantly more religious than the American — or the Arizona — public. Lawmakers of all stripes espouse religious messages and motivations, some more explicitly than others.
SPEAKER: Arizona Republican state Senator Anthony Kern invited an anti-abortion prayer group to the Senate floor. Seen in a video filmed by an anonymous attendee, Kern led the group through a prayer and speaking in tongues as they knelt over the state seal.
ANTHONY KERN: Let it be so, Lord God. Let it be so. Let it be so. Right now, release the presence of the Lord in the Senate chamber. [SOUNDS OF PEOPLE TALKING IN TONGUES]
LAUREN GILGER: But, even for those who don’t speak in tongues on the Senate floor, it’s clear that religion plays a real role in how many of our state lawmakers think, how they vote and why they’re there.
And that’s exactly what we spoke with a slate of legislators about for a new series here on The Show we’re calling Ditat Deus. Which is, if you didn't know, actually Arizona’s state motto. It means "God enriches," and it has been used since 1863, before Arizona was even a state.
But, before we get to those interviews, let’s get a lay of the land. And for that, I am joined by KJZZ’s Camryn Sanchez, with our Politics Desk. Good morning, Camryn.
CAMRYN SANCHEZ: Good morning.
LAUREN GILGER: Okay, so you've spent a lot of years now reporting at the Arizona State Capitol, Camryn, and I know you've had an eye on religion all along. How much does religion come up on the floor, in committee hearings? How much do you hear about religion from lawmakers?
CAMRYN SANCHEZ: It honestly comes up a lot in a little little peppering of different ways. So, we hear lots of religious comments and the prayers and things like that folded into the legislative process, and it's largely, as you may expect, from Republicans. But as you said, we do have a lot of religious, deeply religious lawmakers throughout the legislature on both sides of the aisle.
LAUREN GILGER: And from a mix of religious backgrounds, it seems.
CAMRYN SANCHEZ: Yes, although it's mostly Christians, and on the Republican side especially, it's Christians, Christians, Christians. On the Democrats, there are a couple more. We've had a few Jewish people, a few Jains, a few Natives, a few atheists even, which was a a problem for Republican lawmakers. But yes, on on the whole, it's mostly Christians.
LAUREN GILGER: OK. And you did sort of an informal survey on this a few years ago. Couldn't get answers from everyone, but were able to tell that most were coming from this kind of background.
CAMRYN SANCHEZ: Yes, for those who actually answered the question, it was almost all Christians, and I even had a couple people be offended. They're like, "Could you not tell that I was a Christian?" Like, I didn't know by looking at you. But yes, that was the overwhelming response.
LAUREN GILGER: All right. Many lawmakers will say, Camryn, that they even felt called by God — you've heard that phrase — you know, to serve in the Legislature, to be a public servant in this way, including some we spoke with for this series. Tell us about some of those folks.
CAMRYN SANCHEZ: Yeah, I think the first time I heard that, it kind of caught me off guard. Some people say it really with their full chest. And sometimes it's more subtle, like, "You know, my family and I are praying on the decision of whether or not I should run for office." And some people say, "God wants me to run for office. God called me to run for office, and I'm here because God wants me to be here."
Sen. Jake Hoffman said that recently to us um on a podcast that we did about him picking candidates to run for state offices, and when I asked him how he got into his position, this was his answer.
JAKE HOFFMAN: I say God, that was my initial answer because look, I'm not doing anything greater or better than anybody else. But he keeps putting opportunities in front of me, and he says if if you'll do these and do do them to the best of your abilities, he's like, "I'm going to let you be successful." And I feel like that's what I've done.
And at one point, God's going to call me out of politics. He's going to call me to go do something else, and honestly, I hope it's ministry or something like that. But he's going to call me somewhere else, and when he does, I'm going to go. Because I don't need the title. I don't care about the title of, you know, what state senator or state representative or councilman or school board member. None of that matters. That's all the glitz and glamour and shiny object that the world uses to distract us from the actual mission. And the actual mission is to serve the people of this state to the greatest extent possible.
LAUREN GILGER: So, Camryn, let's talk about some of the kind of big stories on this front, some of the notable instances when religion pops up at the state Capitol. We heard about the prayer, that happens at the beginning of each floor session. Those have also been controversial at some points, right?
CAMRYN SANCHEZ: Yes, there was one particular instance that comes to mind. We had a couple of lawmakers, Athena Salman and Juan Mendez, they're actually a married couple, and they are not religious. And they would not do a religious prayer, but they did do more of a humanist prayer or a non-denominational prayer and that did not fly.
It was the subject of a lot of controversy and anger from Republicans who um were also in the majority party, and they were in the minority party. Typically how it works, they rotate who says the morning prayer, so each lawmaker gets a chance to do it, and when their chance came up, this is what they produced and it was a fight.
LAUREN GILGER: Let's hear a little bit of that.
ATHENA SALMAN: We come from a variety of backgrounds and interests, but the passion that ignites us, the fire that burns within us is similar. We all seek to form a more perfect union, creating change from an abiding passion to improve the lives of humans of this city. There is wonder in that. More importantly though, there is unity. Remember the humanity that resides within each and every person here, and each and every person in this state, and in all people in the nation and the world as a whole.
LAUREN GILGER: So, that humanist prayer, as she called it, caused quite the uproar, and afterward, Rep. Mark Finchem actually got up and offered his own prayer for the day. Let's hear that.
MARK FINCHEM: I rise for a point of personal privilege to have a second order of business under prayer of the day.
SPEAKER: Understood. Please proceed, sir.
MARK FINCHEM: Heavenly Father, I ask that you forgive us for our arrogance. Forgive us, Father, for those things that we do which are delusive to the to the world which you have blessed us with. Father, we ask for your blessing, for your wisdom, for your patience, for your understanding, whether we believe in you or not. At least have the opportunity for our hearts to be opened, our minds to be enriched. And we ask for your blessing in Jesus' name. Amen.
LAUREN GILGER: OK, so we heard a little bit about what Salman had to say. The immediate response to that was not good, as we heard as well. Why did Republicans object to this so much?
CAMRYN SANCHEZ: Well, it's because religion plays a large role in what they see as their life and their duty and their calling as a lawmakers. So, they're there for moral reasons, I think is how they would probably describe it as well, for, you know, as they're representing their constituents, they have moral obligations and to take God out of it is, for a lot of these folks, an insult.
LAUREN GILGER:: When lawmakers cite religion, Camryn, is there a concern that is voiced ever from either side of the aisle that there should be a separation between religious beliefs and policy, between church and state?
CAMRYN SANCHEZ: Yes, and I always hear the exact same argument. I hear the argument of separation of church and state from Democrats, and then my Republicans will say, "Well, actually, that's not in the Constitution." They remind everyone that that's actually a quote from a letter that was sent by a founding father, and it's not actually part of the law. So they say it's really not binding and it's misinterpreted and it's sort of a mischaracterization of what our founding fathers would have wanted in their infinite wisdom as they were crafting, you know, the rules and regulations for how we should lead this country.
The whole separation of church and state thing also it comes up in education conversations. There's been a push here and there to incorporate more religion into public schools, like there was a bill to require classrooms to display the Ten Commandments. And this came up in that context as well.
LAUREN GILGER: Yeah. OK. There's a bill this session, right, to allow kids to leave school for religious instruction.
CAMRYN SANCHEZ: Right.
LAUREN GILGER: Right. So, I mean, overarching question, Camryn. When you have been watching these moments over the years, it sounds like you've paid close attention to them because they are notable, right? That religion sort of permeates this house of law in so many ways. What do you think the effect is of that on what laws actually get passed?
CAMRYN SANCHEZ: I just think it's interesting to me because they are all sort of espousing religion and using it to sort of explain their actions. But obviously, they're not on the same page with one another, right?
So, everyone's saying, "Well, I'm doing what's best and what my faith tells me to do and what I think God would want me to do." And I'm going up against someone who's saying the exact same thing, and in many cases, is even from the exact same denomination.
So, how does that work? And then I think Arizona is a little bit unique amongst other states and countries with this incorporation of religion and the way that it comes up so often. And I think with some legislation, especially when there's been a conservative government, it's been more blatant. It's not just on social issues, but largely on social issues, like abortion.
LAUREN GILGER: Yeah. OK. Lots to unpack here as we continue. KJZZ's Camryn Sanchez with our Politics Desk, setting this all up for us. Camryn, thank you very much.
CAMRYN SANCHEZ: Thank you.
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