Trump administration is systematically dismantling DACA, advocate says

Recipients of the Obama-era DACA program, or Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, are being detained and sometimes deported — despite their status. This, even though the program is designed to shield these so-called "Dreamers" from deportation.

Here in Arizona, community organizer, social media influencer and DACA recipient Karla Toledo was arrested by ICE last month at her Tucson home. Officers claimed she assaulted an officer.

Here’s what it sounded like after ICE agents entered her home on May 18.

[AUDIO CLIP OF KARLA TOLEDO’S ARREST PLAYS]

Toledo’s arrest sparked community outrage and attracted national attention — including calls from Democratic members of Congress for her release. She posted bail on May 22 and was released.

Politics

DACA recipient from Tucson released from ICE custody on bond, but questions remain

Jill Ryan

A Tucson woman detained last week by federal immigration officers — despite her legal status — has been released on bond.

But it’s not just Toledo. Reports of DACA recipients being arrested, detained and deported are on the rise as the President Donald Trump administration continues its immigration crackdown.

Many other DACA recipients are facing monthslong delays in renewals. The Trump administration says DACA isn’t legal status, and it isn’t enough to protect them from deportation.

The Show's next guest says it’s all part of the slow dismantling of the Obama-era program that serves as a lifeline to more than half a million people in this country — including nearly 19,000 in Arizona.

Unlike we saw during President Trump’s first term in office, he says there won’t be a big press conference announcing the program is being rescinded. Instead, we’re witnessing its slow demise.

José Patiño is vice president of Education and External Affairs at Aliento and is a DACA recipient himself. The Show spoke with him more about what’s happening with DACA recipients today.

Amber Victoria Singer

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KJZZ

Full conversation

JOSÉ PATIÑO: Yeah, it — it’s unprecedented, because when the program was created, the government then, the Obama government, promised that if you come forward out of the shadows, basically turn all the documentation you have, your school records, medical records, history where you live, and you get through this process, which — which is not easy to get through — you would then be able to be safe.

And the Number 1 thing was protection from deportation, and then second is ability to work.

But we’re seeing here in the state of Arizona with example of Karla, but previous individuals, DACA recipients, who are being arrested, detained, and in many cases, deported. So right now. there’s this huge fear that exists within the DACA community because the DACA community has shifted in the last 14 years since this program was announced.

I was in my early 20s, I just graduated from college and thinking like, "Oh my God, like, I’m going to start my career."

LAUREN GILGER: Yeah.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: And now in my mid- to late 30s, and the majority of DACA recipients are much older. So now the worries is not only just about yourself, but you’re thinking about your family, you’re thinking about your — many of, many DACA recipients have kids.

So it’s a different worry, and in many ways, it’s — I think it’s scarier than it was then, because of now it’s not only you, you’re — you have little humans depending on you.

LAUREN GILGER: Yeah, I mean like, this is, it was always meant to be a temporary program, but it’s been almost 15 years, and people have lived their lives, right? Like, when you talk about fear within the DACA community, I know that that’s kind of been a perennial thing, right?

As a DACA recipient, people have always been sort of, you know, the political football. They’ve always been sort of unsure of the future of their own status. But it’s also been so long now that that, it sounds like, has shifted.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: It’s been going up and down. Towards the end of the Obama administration, there was a lot of sort of comfort. I think a lot of us believed that we had won at least a narrative that, "Hey, like, we came here as children, we’re now here adults, most of us are in prime working age or either in school studying. It’s a matter of time before Congress finds a way to legalize us into becoming, earning our citizenship."

Then in 2017, when, then the first Trump administration, they rescinded the DACA program. That crystallized everybody that nobody was safe. And I still had a lot of friends who were like, "They can’t like, get rid of us." I’m like, "We’re working, paying taxes, we’re buying homes, starting businesses. We have no criminal record. Like, why would they want to get rid of this population, especially right now that we’re having low birth rates among Americans? Wouldn’t this people, you have prime working age that are contributing and paying for Social Security and Medicare for people to retire?"

And my conversations also with them is like, "This is a different world. This is a different administration that may not see us as an asset of this country." And now, I think there was a calm that happened under the Biden administration, a lot of frustration because nothing really happened, materialized in Congress.

LAUREN GILGER: Sure.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: And now there’s just this, this fear is very palpable. Thus, everybody that I talk to, DACA recipients, they were just having a conversation about whether it be the World Cup or whether it be their kids or anything else, it always ends up into like, "What’s going to happen? What are we going to do?"

And for some reason, they think I have an answer, just because of being involved, and I’m like, "I can just tell you all the stuff that I know and in a way, project, what I think is going to happen, but I don’t know."

LAUREN GILGER: Yeah, you don’t know. There are many changes that have happened under the Trump administration, it sounds like, since they’ve taken office this second time around. I know DACA recipients now are facing very long, weights for renewals. What else has changed?

JOSÉ PATIÑO: Yeah, that’s the one that, it got a lot of DACA recipients just alerted. Under the Biden administration, there were times where it was 15 to 30 days. I got approved within 21 days. I was so surprised and I was like, "Oh, this is how it can be done so fast."

And then it got into the first months of the Trump years, of this term, it was around 70 days, so a little over two months. So people are like, "Oh, nothing has really materially changed." But now since October of 2025, it’s taking more than 120 days, and in many cases, more than six months.

So, I’m in several conversations here locally of individuals who submitted within 120 days, in 150 days, because that’s what’s recommended when by USCIS, and their DACA has not been approved. And some of them have posted online saying like, well — and it, to me, it’s very saddening because it’s like, it’s a job that people work for so long, and they’re basically let go, not because of anything that they could do.

LAUREN GILGER: People losing their jobs because they’ve lost their status.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: Yeah, because an employer cannot legally hire them, and they’re like, "Well, I lost my job because USCIS doesn’t want to process my application even though I submitted within time."

So there’s nothing that you could do, and it’s just heart-wrenching because it’s like, I am being punished because this administration is not doing their job. Now, therefore, I cannot do mine.

LAUREN GILGER: So DACA recipients, those lapses, right? If you’re a DACA recipient, means first of all, like you’re saying, you might lose your job, but also like, you’re open for deportation. You could be picked up and deported at any point if you don’t have that status or if you’re waiting for it.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: Yeah, and DHS has said that, ICE spokespeople have said that, it’s like if your DACA lapses, you’re now no longer protected by the program, and therefore, you’re eligible for being arrested, detained and deported.

LAUREN GILGER: Wow.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: And then the folks are like, "Well, you are, the other part of you, USCIS, is not doing your job." And now they can send that information because they have ICE has access to all DACA recipient applications.

We found that out through a, FOIA request, Freedom of Information, and they can come and get you, whether it be at your home because most of us have our, every single time that we renew, we have to update our, residence history.

LAUREN GILGER: The Trump administration has been pretty open about this, right? They’ve said that DACA is not legal status, which it never has been, but also that it’s basically not enough to protect someone from deportation, whether or not it lapses, it sounds like.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: Yeah, so the first time is true, DACA has never been lawful status. It’s always been legal presence. The second piece is the thing that I think is, in my opinion, I think they’re misleading people. Because they’re trying to change the narrative of the DACA program itself being unlawful or illegal because the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals, and also Judge Hanen in Texas said that the DACA program or the memo, and the Biden rule, is unlawful.

It hasn’t gone through the Supreme Court to actually be full. It has been appealed.

LAUREN GILGER: Right.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: Therefore, they’re saying like, "Oh, there’s this court already that has happened," which is not finalized, "therefore, the program itself is lawful, is unlawful, and we’re going to act as if now, even if you have DACA status, you’re not protected from deportation. You have to take the merits of the entire case."

But previously, even during the Trump first term, they would adhere to the provision and the understanding that DACA status protected you from deportation unless you broke the law and committed a felony or a significant misdemeanor.

LAUREN GILGER: So, I mean, basically you say, José, that this is the slow dismantling of this program, right? Like you think that we’re not going to see some big press conference announcing that DACA is rescinded again, but that it is being taken apart piece by piece.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: Yeah, I remember being in Congress in 2017 and 2018, after the DACA program was rescinded. And I saw the frustration with some of the senators, both Democrats and Republicans, but it was some of the Republicans who were like, "Trump created this issue when it didn’t need to be this much."

By ending the program so emphatically, I think galvanized the American public, galvanized a lot of us to be like, "OK, we have three months to be able to do something." And in Project 2025, it’s outlined that the recommendation, not only for the DACA program itself, but other programs such as Ukrainian refugees or even TPS to dismantle, slow down those programs. If they cannot do it statutorily by law, they can do it by removing agents from working in those cases.

And then allowing those, those programs to lapse, and then also add extra vetting requirements to delay more the process. Because as I mentioned, it’s like even during the Trump first administration, DACA applications get processed within two to three months. Nothing really changes a lot in two years, because you go through your fingerprints, and if you have a criminal record, that’s going to pop up.

But they’re doing this intentionally, in my opinion, and others’ opinions, to specifically is end a program that they do not like for a lot of reasons. One of them is because it was created under President Obama, who is an enemy or a rival of President Trump. And the other piece of it is I think is DACA recipients have been able to build support among the American public because, like, I was here when I was 6 years old. I went to my whole education here. You build ties, you build, you get careers. I’ve been recognized here, locally for awards as well as nationally. So people who are fully undocumented can never do that.

So I think that if you get rid of DACA recipients, you lose a large voice, who’s very influential in the immigrant rights' space, and advocates for immigrants themselves.

LAUREN GILGER: You told us that you think the Trump administration is basically slowly dismantling the DACA program and this kind of less outright way. And I wonder if that’s frustrating from your point of view, José, because it’s being dismantled in this way that maybe people just aren’t going to notice in the same way that they would, you know, like they did under the first Trump administration when they attempted to rescind it and people were outraged.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: It’s terrifying, and it’s, it’s really angry to me because it allows to be able to do, I think, a lot of harm, and people will not notice. And if you have to explain to people the steps, you lose them, because you can’t have 5 minutes to explain them on an ad.

But if you do 15 seconds, it was very easy in 2017 that then-President Trump had ended the DACA program because he had a press conference, "We’re going to end this program."

LAUREN GILGER: Right.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: Now it’s, you don’t have a press conference. Now it’s step by step, it’s very meticulous, very bureaucratic. Now they’re using the government and the mechanisms and its working to end a program, and few people, if anybody, know about it.

LAUREN GILGER: What has this meant for your life, José? I mean like, I know that some DACA recipients have talked about like, you know, not having kids, not buying a house, kind of waiting, being in this kind of holding pattern because you never know what might happen.

PATIÑO: Yeah, as you mentioned, there’s several individuals, several of my friends. DACA community is very, very close. You kind of bond over this experience of like, OK, when does your DACA expire or how do I apply for advance parole and all these things?

LAUREN GILGER: Yeah.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: Yeah, and I have several friends who have, who have delayed going back to school because of, they didn’t want to, they want to make sure to not take any debt. I have some individuals who have delayed potentially marriage, especially if their significant other is also a DACA recipient. That’s kind of a no-no.

Like one of the things I was always told by older adults was please do not fall in love with another undocumented person. And then when we became DACA, please do not fall in love with another DACA recipient. So that's something else ...

LAUREN GILGER: Like you can prevent that, right?

JOSÉ PATIÑO: I think that, I think it comes from a good place, but I think that people are, so those are some of the decisions. And I know some people have broken up because of that. I know people have not taken kids.

Personally, for me, it’s been, that’s part of my calculation. Like growing up with undocumented parents, it was always very scary and very hostile, and it was always like, are they going to be here or I’m not going to be here? And I don’t want to put a kid or a child through that piece, especially now knowing everything that I know.

And then the other piece of it is, is just sort of, you just have to adjust to this way of life that, unless you ask me, I don’t think about it. Or other people ask me, I just like, oh, this is just my normal life. And other people live their lives, I’m like, ah, they can do that, but I can’t.

LAUREN GILGER: I mean, like, is that mentally taxing, like emotionally exhausting? I wonder what that’s like in terms of, how do you compartmentalize something that big?

JOSÉ PATIÑO: No, yeah, it is. It’s, it’s really, I — I have to, I have, I have a therapist and I’m able to talk to, because sometimes I’m like, I got to talk to somebody that is not another person who knows by this, because then it feels like we’re dumping on each other.

LAUREN GILGER: Yeah.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: Mental health practices, doing a lot of physical activities, running helps a lot. But yeah, when I think about it, which is typically when I’m not working or I’m not doing activities, then I, I’m just like, how did my parents do it? How did other people do it?

LAUREN GILGER: Yeah.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: And I’m just reminded that there’s a history of individuals who have overcome difficult things, and this is just my challenge that I need to do, and I had to keep moving forward. But there are days that I just don’t want to. I’m just like, just —

LAUREN GILGER: Just sick of it, I’m sure.

PATIÑO: Yeah, I’m just sick of it. I’m like, why can’t we just fix this out? I’m like, all we’re asking, and this is maybe me naive, is like all we’re asking is people who have been living here for 20, 30 years, who speak the language and understand the culture, is to be able to work legally, pay taxes, and that’s it.

LAUREN GILGER: Yeah.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: And like, I don’t understand why that is such controversial to the public. It’s like, oh, you entered here when, well, I was 6 years old, but people are like, "Oh, you enter here illegally." Yeah, but OK, so how can I ever redeem myself for it? And it feels like there’s nothing that you could do. This is like the original sin, and nothing matters.

LAUREN GILGER: You were a kid, right?

JOSÉ PATIÑO: Well, yeah, I was a kid, but then to say now, OK, what can I do? And there is like, oh, nothing, you just have to wait for Congress to solve it or wait for your senators.

And I’m like, I heard about the Dream Act and got involved in community organizing when I was a senior high school because I found out that I was undocumented, that meant that I couldn’t pay for for college, and I didn’t have access to in-state tuition, all this stuff, and the scholarships that, originally, were given to me, they’re like, "You can’t earn them again."

LAUREN GILGER: Yeah, yeah.

PATIÑO: And I, that’s like I heard about the Dream Act. I talked to a lot of my teachers and friends who were there Republicans, because it was a lot of Bush Republicans. And I was like, "Oh, they’re going to pass it." Like, they’re like, "Oh, this makes sense, like, don’t worry about it. You’re going to get fixed. You got to focus on your studies."

LAUREN GILGER: Yeah.

JOSÉ PATIÑO: And it’s been now almost 20 years, and I’m still in the same place. And I’m just like, what happened? What happened?

LAUREN GILGER: So, I mean, that’s my last question, because the perennial conversation, right, around DACA is that it, you know, it’s not the answer. The answer is comprehensive immigration reform, this very elusive thing in American politics forever.

Do you have any hope at this point that that or anything like it will happen? I mean, like Mark Kelly, our senator from Arizona, has been calling for that, is calling for it again. But I mean, what do you think about that at this point, 20 years in?

JOSÉ PATIÑO: I have my mom’s and my dad’s hope. Because I’m like, logically, it doesn’t make sense. Like, we have a president who ran on mass deportations. You have ICE and the DHS department saying, "DACA is not confer you lawful status, and even if you have DACA and if you do nothing wrong, you could still be deported." You have Congress who never works and doesn’t pass any bills, and for the last 40 years cannot tackle any big issue like immigration reform.

But I still believe that there’s a path forward. And I’m probably, until the day I die, I’m probably going to believe that there’s a path forward for this mythical unicorn of immigration reform because I have had conversations with people who have been arduous and staunch as like, "No, you should be deported and," and then we sit down, go through them, and they’re like, "Oh no, you’re like a human being, like, you’re OK. "Oh, your — oh, your parents must be OK because they raised you."

And I’m like, it’s, most people are like me, like it’s just about getting to know individuals. And my concern now is because of social media and also AI and all this misinformation and all these online trolling that we’re not able to have those conversations to see each other as humans.

GILGER: All right, José Patiño, vice president of education and external affairs at Aliento, joining us, a DACA recipient himself. José, thank you very much for coming in, appreciate it.

PATIÑO: Thank you.

KJZZ's The Show transcripts are created on deadline. This text is edited for length and clarity, and may not be in its final form. The authoritative record of KJZZ's programming is the audio record.

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