It’s a perennial debate: Which is the better food town: Arizona’s biggest metro area and capitol of Phoenix; or Tucson, our smaller, sometimes cooler neighbor to the south?
Metro Phoenix — including some upscale suburbs — has some of the chicest, trendiest spots. The high-end steakhouses, the places where you might spot a Kardashian. As well as some truly outstanding chefs doing great work and winning James Beard Awards for it.
But Tucson has the roots — and maybe the heart, too. In 2015, The Old Pueblo became the first American city to earn UNESCO’s title of City of Gastronomy, a nod to its deep food heritage and commitment to its own food culture.
Well, one Arizona-born-and-bred chef is doing it both here and in Tucson: Don Guerra. He’s a James Beard Award-winning baker and owner of Barrio Bread in Tucson as well as cofounder of Barrio Bagel & Slice up here in Gilbert.
The Show spoke with him more about these two food cities and which one tops his list.
Full conversation
DON GUERRA: I think the Tucson food culture is deeply connected to the place. I mean, you can really taste the desert here. You have chefs and food makers really wanting to use and incorporate heritage foods into their menus as a way to highlight the region. And I think really that has to do with the UNESCO having a spotlight on our city.
But it’s really based on some of the Indigenous food knowledge that helped shape how we grow, harvest, conserve water, and even cook in this environment. I’m thinking foods like tepary beans, chiltepin, mesquite, ... squash, corn. In my case, the white Sonoran wheat.
So the ingredients tell a story of the place, and I think that’s really what we’re focused on here.
LAUREN GILGER: Yeah. So, I mean, it’s about this connection to heritage, right? And I think connection to the region, right? Like, this proximity that Tucson has to the border and its kind of identity as this cross-border intercultural place, I think probably plays a big role in that. Does it to you?
DON GUERRA: Yeah, definitely. You know, it’s, I think Tucson’s food culture comes from generations of Mexican, Indigenous and borderlands traditions, and that’s really well represented here, as well as a lot of other influences, like with the the Chinese and some of the spices that we have, the the chilies, of course, and you see this fusion with Chinese and Mexican food.
And so really this is really about this culinary traditions that have been happening for years because of the different populations of people that have been blended. And a lot of people, just it has to do with pride. Tucsonans are very proud of where they come from. And when community sees people doing good in the community, they want to support those people.
So it’s a very special place, but it really has to do with that borderlands cuisine and all the people that have been living on this land for for centuries.
LAUREN GILGER: That’s such an interesting thing you said there, right, about Tucsonans’ pride in their place and where they’re from. Because I think that’s so different than Phoenix. And I and I have been here for a long time, so I think I can say that.
But I mean, Phoenix is this kind of place that’s so different. It’s much bigger, but it’s also, you know, everyone here is from somewhere else, is kind of the perpetual narrative in this town.
What do you think that says or does to this idea of food culture or food heritage? Do we have that?
DON GUERRA: You know, it’s developing more and more. I have seen this change in the way chefs really view their culinary world in Phoenix. And I mean, Phoenix has a plethora, so many amazing chefs and and offerings, and it’s so exciting to be there because every time I’m there, I learn about a new person, I get to develop my network of chef friends and foodies.
But I think this is happening more and more in, in Arizona, and I would say in Phoenix, as well. I think we’re seeing the shift from competitive to more collaborative work. This shows up just recently, the support for some of the influencers. There was someone that was ill, hospitalized, a food influencer, and all of these chefs rallying together to create this special meal to have this kind of support for a fundraising campaign to pay for some of the medical bills.
But I am so surprised and really it feels so good to be part of that Phoenix community. And I think it’s becoming more aligned with Tucson that we’re starting to see there’s no real division between these cities. And I’m even going to say Flagstaff, because that’s where home of my first bakery.
But now working on a statewide initiative to really promote collaboration over competition. Definitely from my perspective, but a lot of the chefs I hang out with in the Valley, too, is that we really want to support Arizona. We really want to showcase what we can put on our menus that are Indigenous foods, heritage foods, and make people aware and even proud of where they come from.
LAUREN GILGER: So, it’s not Tucson versus Phoenix to you, it’s it’s the whole state kind of and chefs throughout it kind of creating a statewide food culture. Even though that that varies throughout the regions, that’s really interesting.
You mentioned, Don, food influencers, and the role they have played, I think, has gone up so much and become so much more important in food today, not just here but around the country, around the world, I’m sure.
But I have to ask you about this as well, because you’ll see some place that is new and it’ll have lines around the block because they’ve paid a bunch of influencers to come and promote them.
I mean, is there more of that in Phoenix, you think? Do you think that that there are more authentic food influencers who have also done good in that, as well?
DON GUERRA: I think there’s a lot more in Phoenix, to tell you the truth. I think Tucson is a little bit slower. I think we’re innovative, but we’re kind of sticking to more traditional innovative ways. But I definitely think the influencers are doing a lot for the community, as well as sometimes it can be detrimental.
We don’t see the traditional food critics anymore, where they’re sort of trained in how to evaluate restaurants. I think now it’s more overt with personalities and celebrity influencers. They they can come into a restaurant and get fed and go through the menu.
So I think it works super well. And I’ve been fortunate to have a lot of positive reviews. But I think it can be positive and negative sometimes. But overall, I think this is just where we are at as a society. This is where we’re at as a culture, especially around food.
There’s a lot of food influencers around, and there’s a lot to be said and a lot to be seen, especially in Phoenix when there’s new businesses and new food establishments coming up all the time. Every day you see something new.
LAUREN GILGER: All the time. Yeah, it’s massive. It just seems like it’s always growing. Something’s always changing, something’s always opening or closing.
Let me ask you about Gilbert, in particular, where you opened your new bakery, Barrio Bagel & Slice. I mean, Gilbert’s an interesting spot because it’s come up quite a bit as a food scene, and I think with a lot of like local, I guess chain restaurants, for lack of a better term, right? Like local restaurants that have begun to open new locations in places like Gilbert.
What do you think of the ecosystem there and how it’s kind of been designed?
DON GUERRA: I think a lot of it’s designed around delicious food. I really do. I think it’s a little bit different than say Tucson, who we’re looking at as local food systems, developing local food systems. I think these these chain restaurants or even like within the Valley, you see one restaurant doing super well and having different locations.
I think the difference is we are seeing some top-notch restaurants, some very talented chefs, and then I think the hospitality has become very important for Phoenix, something that they’ve always had. I think Tucson is a little bit more laid back. I think we’re thinking more about um sometimes the the the land and the ingredients in the story of them.
LAUREN GILGER: OK. So let me ask you, before I let you go, Don. It sounds like you don’t have a favorite here. You’ve got lots of good things about either city, and you can have, you know, great food experiences in both towns. Is there a winner to you?
DON GUERRA: I think they’re both winners, tell you the truth. And I enjoy the experience so much when I’m in Phoenix. I’m around my family, who lives there. I enjoy a little bit more fast-paced lifestyle. I enjoy seeking out little places that are so unique. There’s so much opportunity there.
But I think the way I see it, both are celebrated equally. There’s a lot to be seen in both places.
A little bit more rustic in Tucson. You know, the city of Phoenix, it’s very diverse. So from city to city inside the Valley, you’re going to see a lot of different things, which makes it a lot of fun. And you can get around much quicker than the surface streets of Tucson.
LAUREN GILGER: Yeah, fair enough, all right. Well, that is Don Guerra, founder of Barrio Bread, Barrio Grains and co-founder of Barrio Bagel & Slice in Gilbert, joining us. Don, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.
DON GUERRA: Thank you for having me. It’s a true honor.
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