An ASU researcher studying water insecurity is elected to the National Academy of Sciences

An Arizona State University researcher has been elected to the National Academy of Sciences — one of the highest honors they can get.

Amber Wutich is a regents and president’s professor in the School of Human Evolution and Social Change; her research focuses on water insecurity, and a few years ago, she was also selected as a MacArthur Fellow.

Wutich talked with The Show about what the election to the National Academy of Sciences means to her.

Full conversation

AMBER WUTICH: It is incredibly thrilling. I have always looked up to scientists who are elected members of the National Academy, and so to be among them is very exciting.

MARK BRODIE: How did you find out?

AMBER WUTICH: My colleague, Anne Stone, who is in the National Academy, texted me. And I was so surprised that I sent her at least 11 emojis.

MARK BRODIE: [LAUGHS] Was this something that you were thinking about or like thought was a possibility?

AMBER WUTICH: It’s very top secret, so people do not know when they’re being considered. They don’t put in an application. It’s just a complete surprise.

MARK BRODIE: So, what will this mean for your research?

AMBER WUTICH: I think that my research will carry on as it always has. We are so fortunate to have incredible support at our university and our state for the kind of work that we do on water insecurity. But I think that it will give me and my group a chance to speak to members of government and society in new ways that could help the research have more impact.

MARK BRODIE: And a lot of the research I know that you do happens in sort of lower-income parts of the world. Might your access to, you know, government officials — either here or elsewhere — help you advance some of the things you’re trying to do?

AMBER WUTICH: Definitely. One of the reasons that the National Academy of Sciences was created in the United States was in an advisory capacity to the government. And so, members are often asked to do special reports on issues to advise the government on how they could make better policy or do better research. And so, I hope I’ll have a chance to inform in that way.

MARK BRODIE: So, you mentioned that you do a lot of research in the area of water insecurity, which is obviously an issue that a lot of people in this part of the world are thinking about right now. What are — what specifically are you working on? What are you thinking about now as we’re hearing all of this stuff about, you know, the Colorado River continues to, you know, we’re all going to get cut back on the amount of water we get? How is that impacting your research?

AMBER WUTICH: Sure. So, we know that the ways that we live in the world are going to have to change because of greater droughts, a warming climate, and what my group works on is how we can change our lives in ways that address these problems but also make our lives better. So, one of the things that we work on is how people can get more involved in managing their water at a household level, work with their neighbors and communities in ways that make their lives feel meaningful. And so, we’re hoping that we can help facilitate transitions towards sustainability or toward safer water futures that are also enjoyable for people.

MARK BRODIE: So, when you’re talking about people maybe working together, like is this sort of on the neighborhood scale, like a block of of houses doing something together?

AMBER WUTICH: Yes. One of the things that we know from 10,000 years of human history is that when there are periods of climate stress, people seem to break up into smaller communities that are more tight-knit so that they can band together and help each other in different ways. And so, one of the things we’re studying is what might that look like with modern technologies and in modern society?

MARK BRODIE: What might that look like?

AMBER WUTICH: Well, one example we see in Arizona a lot is that people’s wells have run dry if they live in rural areas, and so they’re needing to haul water. And they band together to create a group of people who are strong enough or have the right trucks to go get the water, and then they distribute it to the grannies and households that need that help. And so, this is — , from one perspective, it can be more expensive and more labor-intensive to do this kind of water work, but it also creates a huge amount of meaning in people’s lives to know that they’re neighbors helping neighbors, that they have a valued social role. And so, we think that this can really make people’s lives more meaningful.

MARK BRODIE: It’s interesting because when you think of water, obviously we need it to survive. So I wonder if there’s maybe a different level of meaning for neighbors who are helping each other get access to water — as opposed to maybe neighbors helping neighbors do other things.

AMBER WUTICH: Absolutely. Water is life. It’s the most essential thing that people need to live. And so, when you know that you are helping your neighbor survive by getting them water, I think that that does give people a sense of great meaning in their lives.

MARK BRODIE: Do you see a role for new technology in this kind of thing? Like, I’m thinking of like a Nextdoor version like for people who are looking to help each other with water, something like that. Like, a way to use, you know, all this technology that we have at our fingertips now.

AMBER WUTICH: Yes. In fact, that’s why my group is integrated with Paul Westerhoff’s engineering group, because unlike 10,000 years ago, it’s not going to work to just dig out a river or a canal or a well. We need these technologies to be able to create small-scale, household-level and community-level solutions. So, examples are reverse osmosis or atmospheric water harvesting, that are these modular, small-scale technologies that can help households make ends meet with regard to water.

MARK BRODIE: How do you make sure that people are more collaborative than competitive when it comes to this increasingly scarce resource?

AMBER WUTICH: Well, it is true that people will be both collaborative and competitive because this is a basic aspect of human nature. But we know that there are certain kinds of relationships that make people be more collaborative. And so, kinship relationships, neighbor relationships, co-religionist relationships are the kinds of bonds that historically do help people get through hard times. And so, finding how to get people to invest in those bonds and leverage them to be more water-secure is one of the things that we work on.

MARK BRODIE: Might this be a way to sort of fight back against some of the polarization we see in society, or … maybe that is an impediment to doing what you’re suggesting?

AMBER WUTICHIC: It can be a bit of an impediment because as we see trust in science and public health organizations declining, we also see people getting ideas that perhaps scientists would not support with regard to water quality or safety or ways that people are consuming water and — such as the raw water movement. And so, yes, the polarization does complicate this, but we always hope that with a fundamental resource, it causes people to come together and overcome those differences in a way that they wouldn’t otherwise.

MARK BRODIE: Are there examples that you’ve seen, either here in Arizona or elsewhere, where this has really worked?

AMBER WUTICH: Yes. Every place that water is scarce and humans are alive, they have found a way to cooperate and get each other the water they need.

MARK BRODIE: I guess you kind of have to, right?

AMBER WUTICH: You have to. And that’s why water’s so interesting to study, because there’s no other option than to find a solution together.

MARK BRODIE: Right. How much promise do you think some of those new technologies hold? I mean, we’ve seen that, you know, there’s a memorandum of understanding now … with a desalination plant in California to try to, you know, move some water around, desal water in Southern California and, you know, maybe Arizona and others get some more Colorado River water. Cities are investing in these ... advanced water purification facilities. How much promise do you think those hold?

AMBER WUTICH: I think they’re going to be essential because the thing that people often don’t realize is that the amount of water that the Earth has is pretty much constant. So, it’s not — when we say water scarcity, we don’t mean that the water has disappeared. It means that it’s harder to get. It’s more expensive to get to where it needs to go, and it’s more expensive to clean.

So, every technology that we can create that helps us deal with those problems of locating the water, transporting it and cleaning it, will help lower the price and make it more accessible to people — especially the people who are the most water-insecure that we work with.

MARK BRODIE: Well, you mentioned price, and that seems to consistently be a pretty important issue, right? I mean, water is this — obviously, as we’ve talked about — a finite resource. It’s something that one needs to live, but on the other hand, there’s been a lot of criticism that especially in a place like Phoenix, it’s been so cheap for so long that people don’t really think so much about how much they’re using.

AMBER WUTICH: Yes. There’s a basic tension between the idea that water has a value and water is a human right. And so, every society I think is trying to strike that balance in terms of making water affordable enough so that no one is sick or dying because they don’t have enough. But finding the pricing level so that people don’t use it irresponsibly.

MARK BRODIE: All right. That is Amber Wutich, a regents and president’s professor at ASU and a new member of the National Academy of Sciences. Amber, good as always to talk to you. Thank you.

AMBER WUTICH: Thank you. A pleasure to be here.