If judge ends MCSO oversight, 'we would go back to the days of Joe Arpaio,' advocate says

For more than a decade, a court-appointed monitor has been making sure that the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office doesn’t discriminate against Latinos.

In a landmark 2013 decision, the court found former Sheriff Joe Arpaio and his agency had systematically racially profiled Latinos at traffic stops and beyond — and ordered the agency to make reforms, under the watch of monitor Robert Warshaw.

But, since Sheriff Jerry Sheridan took over the office last year, the agency and an array of Republican county officials have been mounting an effort to get rid of Warshaw.

Gage Skidmore

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It all culminated last week in court, where an attorney for the county argued that the monitor has been successful, MCSO has changed and the judge should terminate oversight of the agency.

But the plaintiffs say the opposite is true. And the most recent report from the monitor backs them up. It found a “disturbing pattern” of violations and ethical breaches that call into question the integrity of the agency and its leaders.

Raul Piña is a member of the Community Advisory Board appointed to oversee MCSO’s compliance with the court order.

He came to KJZZ's studios to talk about the central argument the county made last week in court: That “no one can identify any instance of racial profiling or immigration enforcement in over a decade.”

Does he agree with that statement?

Full conversation

RAUL PIÑA: I don't agree with that because there are indicators of bias. There are indicators of interactions that are questionable. There are data points that are misrepresented. The data collection system is constantly under negotiations because they want to alter the way it's collected, the way it's interpreted.

So it's impossible to say we have had zero incidents of racial profiling in the last 10 years. Otherwise, we would not still be here. The data is not consistent to support that.

LAUREN GILGER: And a recent report from the federal monitor detailed where he sees MCSO still falling short, even going back in ways. And this was I think significant because up until that most recent report from the monitor, even folks like you had said that MCSO is pretty close here, like they've done a lot, they need to sustain these changes going forward, a lot of these big issues are resolved at this point. I think you told me at one point they're closer than ever.

Do you think that's not the case anymore given this most recent report from the monitor?

RAUL PIÑA: I think the most recent report was it was scathing, it was alarming in some ways, and it shows a commitment to operate with impunity, to operate with few guardrails, if you will, and that's a huge concern. It's backsliding in terms of data, in terms of daily operations, in terms of the attitude towards the reform process.

Amber Victoria Singer/KJZZ

LAUREN GILGER: The report said, and I'm quoting as well, highlighted "a disturbing pattern of behaviors, policy violations, court violations, statutory violations, and a host of ethical breaches that call into question the integrity of the agency as well as its senior leaders."

What do you think the monitor is getting at there? Is this about the new leadership, the new sheriff?

RAUL PIÑA: I think it addresses the character of the organization, the character of the executive leadership. There are good people within the agency that want to move us towards reform, but if you have an executive leadership team, you have layers of leadership that are not committed to reform process, that are not committed to constitutional policing, it's going to cause the agency to backslide in terms of the reform process. It's inevitable.

LAUREN GILGER: And you think that's what we're seeing happen here?

RAUL PIÑA: I believe that's happening, and there are multiple indicators that there's just not a commitment to the reform process. There seems to be a longing for the good old days of the Arpaio era, and that is disturbing.

LAUREN GILGER: Can you give us some specifics here because I know these reports from the monitor and the kind of requirements that MCSO is supposed to meet are very specific in terms of like the number of minutes and seconds that a deputy will spend, for example, with someone at a traffic stop.

RAUL PIÑA: Well, the data has been consistent over time. The stops for Latino drivers, brown and Black people, are longer. The arrest rate for brown and Black people is higher at those traffic stops. So that has been consistent over time, and that continues to be the case.

A recent concern we have discovered is that there was over 100 traffic stop cases that were not submitted in a report to the monitor, and MCSO had to file an amendment. One of the concerns that we have is that we're typically operating one quarter behind. So that report will not come out for another two and a half months, if you will, but there are those concerns that all of the information is not being brought forward in a timely manner.

LAUREN GILGER: So this effort to end oversight by the monitor has been kind of growing momentum over the last year or so. We've talked to you about it on The Show before, we've talked to the sheriff about it on the show before. And it's been supported by many GOP politicians as well, leaders on the Board of Supervisors and other offices in the county.

But former Democratic Sheriff Paul Penzone, the person who was elected and ousted Joe Arpaio from office, also left office early, and he was a Democrat. And he cited the monitor and how he thought that this ongoing oversight made it hard for him to do what he wanted there. So I wonder, do you think this is political?

RAUL PIÑA: It's political because it makes sense for politicians to pursue votes on Melendres. It's easy to say, we're approaching a quarter of a billion dollars in cost and not acknowledging that some of those funds were misappropriated, some of those funds were misattributed, if you will. So sure, it's a political football.

However, the GOP has used that to their advantage. There are entire political campaigns being launched and donations raised by saying that the monitor needs to leave Maricopa County. That's easy to say, but what about the people who are impacted the most by a history of racial profiling, police malpractice in Maricopa County? What about those folks?

LAUREN GILGER: Let's talk about those folks to end with here because the judge is deciding now whether or not this oversight should end, there could be kind of an in-between solution as well.

If he were to allow Maricopa County Sheriff's Office to continue forward without this court oversight, what do you think that would say to the Latino community that prompted this case to begin with?

RAUL PIÑA: If the monitoring ends tomorrow and there is no monitor, there is no guardrails established by the court, I think that would be a very dangerous and scary time for the Latino community in Maricopa County. We would go back to the days of Joe Arpaio. There would be collaboration with the current administration to pursue people.

LAUREN GILGER: You mean like a 287(g) agreement?

RAUL PIÑA: Absolutely.

LAUREN GILGER: Which they're barred from doing right now because of this court order.

RAUL PIÑA: Right. Without the guardrails set by the court and by Melendres, we would be back to 287(g)s, perhaps raids and so forth.

Politically, there's an incentive to do those things. It's a popular thing to do is to pursue brown people who are working construction jobs and so forth. It makes sense to do that politically to raise money on those images on television and those sound bites on talk radio.

So it's scary for vehicle operators in Maricopa County, but it's more scary for the most impacted people, the DACA recipients, the mixed-status family. It's a scary time if, in fact, Melendres is lifted.

LAUREN GILGER: So do you think that'll happen? The judge seemed skeptical of lifting all oversight over MCSO, but maybe supportive of doing some of it, letting them out of some of these provisions that they've been in compliance on for years, but not everything?

RAUL PIÑA: I think the judge is was looking for a way to give some relief to MCSO. I mean, still they have the burden of proof to show they're not racially profiling people in Maricopa County, but he seemed to be willing to give them some relief.

My concern is they will not take advantage of that. The character of the organization is such that they will find a way to not do the right thing, if you will.

LAUREN GILGER: OK, we'll leave it there. Raul Piña with his take on this member of the Community Advisory Board, which oversees the MCSO court order compliance. Raul, thank you very much for coming back on the show. Appreciate it very much.

RAUL PIÑA: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

LAUREN GILGER: We also reached out to the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office and asked Sheriff Jerry Sheridan to come on The Show to talk about this. They sent us a statement saying, "Sheriff Sheridan believes that MCSO is in compliance with the court order and is currently awaiting the court's ruling on the matter."