Fewer people are buying wine in U.S. This winemaker says the situation is different in Arizona

Some wine growers in California are struggling. The New York Times reports some wineries are ripping out — or burning — their grapes in response to lower sales.

There are a number of theories as to why fewer people may be buying and drinking wine — from health concerns to price to taste.

Pavle Milic, the co-owner of the restaurant FnB in Scottsdale and a winemaker with Los Milics Vineyards, spoke to The Show about the situation for Arizona wineries

Lauren Gilger/KJZZ

Full conversation

MARK BRODIE: Pavle, good morning.

PAVLE MILIC: Good morning.

MARK BRODIE: So are Arizona wineries in a similar situation? Obviously, on a much smaller scale than California, but is the situation kind of similar here as it is with our neighbors to the west?

PAVLE MILIC: Well, I think the story, it’s quite different in Arizona. Now, mind you, and I should contextualize it based on the history of the last three years. For example, in ’23, ’24 and, to a lesser degree, in 2025, we had amazing, bountiful harvests, which means this year I have heard of some growers that are not necessarily selling as much fruit as they have in the past.

But I’ve got to tell you, and I have to sort of bring in the context in the story of FnB, one change that we’ve seen, especially over the last two or three years, is not so much that the wine consumption, the wine purchases at FnB still sort of are at the top of the spear, but guests are beginning to ask more about nonalcoholic options, whether it’s things that we carry like Phony Negroni or Athletic Brewing.

But when it comes to Arizona wine, and specifically Los Milics Vineyards, we have not personally experienced sort of the bad news that we’re seeing coming from California and even other regions.

MARK BRODIE: Is it surprising to you what you’re seeing happening in California?

PAVLE MILIC: Well, I think that, especially being in the business, the news is not good. I will say this, and I have friends in California that are obviously — they know that there is a correction and there is a decrease in consumption. But conversely speaking, or at least in my experience, most of the wines that we produce at Los Milics are sold within state lines.

And by that I mean, in terms of scale, we’ve never had to sort of compete with — and again, this is a slightly reductive sort of explanation, but we never had to compete with places like California, Oregon, Washington, Finger Lakes, Europe or South America, for that matter, because Arizona wine, although anymore there’s over 156 federally bonded and licensed wineries, has always been a very close-knit, grassroots, sort of a local-vore, state pride sort of movement where you still get to experience the human scale to winemaking. And by that, I mean, invariably, if you go to a tasting room or a winery, you are going to meet the farmer’s calloused hands.

I think it’s, again, due to the nature of how most of the sales have sort of tracked since I can remember, since even opening up FnB 17 years ago, it’s been a pretty sort of local movement. So I think we’re still, you know, pretty well positioned. And I say that with more than a modicum of humility. You know, you have to stay — you have to try to stay sort of aware and see what’s going on and see if you need to pivot or what things you need to do.

MARK BRODIE: Well, I mean, is it possible for winemakers to pivot if, for example, people are looking for nonalcoholic drinks instead of the alcohol in wine? Like, is there a way that you or other winemakers can do that?

PAVLE MILIC: Well, when we talk about the nonalcoholic category, as I mentioned before, we do have guests at FnB that are requesting nonalcoholic offerings more so than before. It depends on who you talk to about nonalcoholic wine. It’s like a bifurcated conversation where some winemakers believe, like, why would you even want to do that? And when was the last time that you actually tasted nonalcoholic wine that was good?

And then there are some winemakers that actually see that there’s a demographic there that would love to still enjoy sort of the ritual aspect of popping a cork and sitting down without having to deal with, I guess, the aftermath if you overly imbibe, if you will. So it just depends on who you talk to.

For us at Los Milics, things that we try to do, it’s this idea of amalgamating experience, meaning the experience of enjoying architecture, offering food, by that I mean we have a restaurant in the winery, and service, and then trying to sort of double down on providing additional experiences, whether it’s something as interesting as Tarot Night or whether it’s yoga on the crush pad.

I think at the end of the day, the thing about wine is that it sort of levels the playing field. It brings people together. It’s about the conviviality that you create when obviously you pop a cork with friends.

But when we talk about this idea of the health aspects anymore that people are obviously concerned about, and at the heels of the surgeon general talking about that no amount of wine is good for you, which I thought was a bit of a draconian assessment.

And by that I mean to provide sort of an opposing framework or angle to this conversation, if we look closely at the work of someone like Dan Buettner in the Blue Zones, where we see this unusual amount of centenarians, for the exception of Loma Linda where Seventh-day Adventists don’t really drink, but everybody else does have a glass or two every day.

I think that when you talk about enjoying wine with food, and when there’s a sense of community, and when that’s coupled with eating a relatively speaking healthier diet and there’s movement and there’s community. I just don’t think you can silo the conversation to just "this is bad for you." I mean, it’s been around forever, and I don’t think wine is going to go away.

MARK BRODIE: Interesting. All right, that is Pavle Milic, co-owner of the restaurant FnB in Scottsdale. He also is a winemaker with Los Milics Vineyards. Pavle, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

PAVLE MILIC: Thank you for having me.

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