Gov. Hobbs won't debate Biggs in the Arizona governor race. Does this strategy serve the voters?

Congressman Andy Biggs is trying to oust Gov. Katie Hobbs this year and return the governor’s office to the GOP, but he won’t get to face off with her on the debate stage.

The Democrat’s camp confirmed last week — Hobbs will not debate Biggs. It’s a strategy she’s used to her political advantage in the past, but does it serve the voters?

Elvia Diaz is the former editorial page editor of the Arizona Republic — she now writes about her views on her Substack, Notas con Elvia Díaz. And she joined The Show to talk more.

Full conversation

LAUREN GILGER: Good morning, Elvia.

ELVIA DÍAZ: Good morning. Good to be here.

LAUREN GILGER: Thanks for coming on. So this probably didn’t come as a surprise to you, right? Hobbs refused to debate Kari Lake in 2022. She didn’t debate Marco Lopez, who ran against her in the Democratic primary before that. What’s the political calculation here, Elvia?

ELVIA DÍAZ: Well, you’re correct. This is absolutely a surprise to no one. And the political calculation for her is that she is not going to be thinking on her feet, and she doesn’t need to defend her record in a very unscripted moment, which is a debate. And quite frankly, the part that almost no one is talking about — they’re coming up with all kinds of excuses, especially her political operatives — is the fact that she is not as articulate as the other opponents.

So I’m pretty sure that also has played a role in her. And so it is best for her as a candidate not to do it, and not be in a position where she is not reading a script or she is not just doing soundbites, that she actually has to defend her record and face the political opponents. Did it work for her? Of course. Will it work for her again? Probably. So that’s pretty smart political calculation, but that’s not necessarily good for voters.

LAUREN GILGER: Right. We’ll talk about that in a moment. But the Biggs campaign obviously seized on this immediately, went on the attack. They compared this to former President Joe Biden when he had that disastrous debate performance that basically knocked him out of the last presidential race. I mean, what do you think this does for the Biggs campaign? Gives him a good attack line at least?

ELVIA DÍAZ: It does. And he is using that, as you just mentioned, because he can essentially say, "Well, Gov. Hobbs is a coward. She is unable to face me directly and face you, the voters, without her people telling her what to do." Yes, it’s an attack.

And then the fact that Joe Biden is mentioned, I think everyone can remember that debate that we all thought — we meaning the American people thought — that President Joe Biden at the time was a lot more energetic than he actually was. And that’s how we found out that he was not able to conduct the debate. And that was the end of his political career.

So I’m pretty sure that is playing into Gov. Hobbs’ mind as well in her decision not to debate. But again, having that comparison is not necessarily good for her. Biggs can make that argument that, what is she hiding? What is she afraid of?

LAUREN GILGER: Hobbs’ campaign manager basically said debates are political theater. She said that the debate stage is designed for soundbites. And I mean, honestly, like, that is what you often see, at least in the coverage of debates — less substance, more about kind of getting those jabs in against your opponents. Do debates really serve the public anymore, Elvia?

ELVIA DÍAZ: I do. And let me tell you why. I’m going to reiterate the fact that debates are one of the few unscripted moments in a campaign where voters can actually see candidates think on their feet. That’s what I’m arguing in my column. Even though you are correct that it’s soundbites and they prepare for it, you still have to be thinking, you still have to be delivering.

And the difference between a debate and the campaign events and interviews — Katie Hobbs is saying that she is going to be talking to people face to face and that’s better — well, all that is controlled. Very controlled. Debates are not. And so that’s why it serves a purpose.

And keep in mind that governors regularly face hostile environments, hostile lawmakers, crises, difficult questions, what have you. So voters do deserve to see how candidates perform under pressure. And definitely a debate is under pressure. Again, this may be good for her as a candidate, but is it good for voters? That’s what I’m arguing. A good political calculation for her? Yes. Good for democracy? No.

LAUREN GILGER: Elvia do you think, though, in today’s very divided political landscape, people are so dug in already, especially into their own parties today, that they kind of know who they’re going to vote for anyway? They’re not voting on one specific issue or whatever kind of jab the candidate can get in on a debate. Are we kind of past this in this realm of politics today?

ELVIA DÍAZ: Well, that’s why I’m arguing a debate is a good idea. You are correct. Hardcore Republicans and hardcore Democrats do not need a debate. They already know that they’re going to vote for their candidate. So the people who benefit the most are the independents and the crossover voters.

And keep in mind that independents are a third of Arizona registered voters. So those are the ones that are still evaluating the candidates. They are the ones that are going to be deciding the elections, after all.

And that’s why political pundits are talking about the fact that each candidate are not necessarily talking to all Arizonans because they already know that their base are going to vote for her. They’re only talking to a handful of people — tens of thousands of voters, I believe that’s what political pundits say — because Hobbs won by what, 17,000 last time?

So those are the ones that are going to make the election for each of the candidates. So that’s why I think it’s extremely important for those handful of people that are undecided, that will decide the election.

LAUREN GILGER: Last 30 seconds here for you, Elvia. I mean, does this turn into then a question of the role and the responsibility of the media — of us — of asking those questions, of giving voters that real view if they’re not going to get it via debate?

ELVIA DÍAZ: Yeah, but if we journalists are not getting true access to those candidates, how are we going to do it? Debates are not about really changing thousands of minds. It’s about being able to be there and have journalists ask the questions that are not turned over in advance or are not controlled.

So I would not be arguing for a debate if in fact the candidates were truly available .... to journalists to ask all the questions that we need to ask. Hobbs is not answering, and it’s the same with Biggs.

LAUREN GILGER: We’re losing your connection there a little bit, but that is Elvia Díaz, former editorial page editor for the Arizona Republic. She writes now on Substack, Notas con Elvia Díaz. Elvia, thanks so much for coming on. Appreciate it.

ELVIA DÍAZ: Thank you.

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