Flock investigations are stacking up. Why the Pinal County sheriff is getting rid of the cameras

Law enforcement agencies across metro Phoenix and Arizona are investigating officers’ misuse of Flock license plate-tracking technology.

In Goodyear, a police officer is under criminal investigation for potentially misusing the license place reader system.

In Apache Junction, an officer turned in his badge after using the system to try to track down his wife.

And Chandler’s police chief said his department is investigating an employee related to the use of Flock.

Well, our next guest this morning says none of that happened in his department — but he decided not to renew Flock’s contract anyway.

Ross Teeple is the sheriff in Pinal County. He spoke with The Show about his decision.

Full conversation

ROSS TEEPLE: My concerns from a business standpoint was is the contract was getting ready to expire, and we had to notify them 45 days or more prior to the contract, or it would automatically renew. So that was one of the things. There was not enough time for me to get the answers to the questions that I had before we would have ran out of time to tell them we’re not going to renew.

LAUREN GILGER: You talked to the Board of Supervisors, I believe, about the capabilities of these Flock cameras in terms of doing more than reading license plates. What else can they do?

ROSS TEEPLE: Well, by Flock’s own writing, they say that they use artificial intelligence to create a digital fingerprint of a vehicle traveling down the roadway.

LAUREN GILGER: Are they recognizing faces? Are they live-streaming video? I mean, it sounds like what you’re concerned about is basically being able to track where your citizens are at all times.

ROSS TEEPLE: And what I’m concerned about is what technology is contained in the cameras that — I know what my deputies are using them for is lawful to run a license plate to see if it traveled down this roadway. The Supreme Court, that’s settled case law.

License plate readers are a great tool. We just used them last night. But I don’t know what capabilities the cameras have beyond the access that my deputies have. And once a company starts compiling a database, I have concerns of ... what that database is being used for.

LAUREN GILGER: Were you hearing concerns from people in the community about these cameras? I know many communities around the state, around the country have been, you know, debating these Flock cameras in particular because of questions about, you know, privacy and about where that data is being stored.

ROSS TEEPLE: Yes, ma’am. A lot of concerns. A lot of emails forwarded to me from the Pinal County Board of Supervisors. They would get emails from constituents, and I got emails directly to me with the citizens voicing a lot of concern. And I don’t know if you know, but I am for the people, and I listen to the people because they’re my employer.

LAUREN GILGER: I want to back up for a moment. You mentioned, you know, the sort of purported use of these cameras, the point of them to begin with, to read license plates. How does your department use that?

ROSS TEEPLE: Well, the best example I can give of that is an unfortunate incident that happened on Hunt Highway in Arizona Farms here recently. An aggressive driver pushed a young lady into oncoming traffic. She tragically lost her life. And human beings can be great witnesses, and sometimes we can be flawed witnesses. Everyone on scene reported what the vehicle looked like differently than what it actually was. My deputy was able to log onto the system, locate the suspect vehicle and take the suspect into custody.

LAUREN GILGER: Interesting. So you are not the first to say you’re getting rid of this technology. The Chandler Police Department is ending their contract with Flock. They said there was potential misuse of the information by an employee. We saw the same thing just happen with an officer in Apache Junction. He had to give up his badge. You say you know your officers have not misused this technology, but it does sound like you’re concerned about the potential for that.

ROSS TEEPLE: No. That was not a concern of mine in the decision-making process at all. My deputies are outstanding individuals, very ethical, and they were using it for what the Supreme Court says that we’re allowed to use it for.

LAUREN GILGER: Are there mechanisms in place in your department there to ensure that that’s the case? I mean, are there ways of checking and making sure that it is always or has always been used ethically?

ROSS TEEPLE: We have a very stringent LPR policy at the Pinal County Sheriff’s Office. It’s detailed out what it can be used for and the purposes for it.

LAUREN GILGER: What’s the reaction been like in your community there, Sheriff, to this decision to not renew this contract with Flock? As you said, you’d been getting a lot of concerns forwarded to you from the County Board of Supervisors. You’d heard from many people in the community about their concerns about this. Are people happy that you’re not going to have this anymore?

ROSS TEEPLE: Now, I’ve only been in office 18 months, and it’s a real honor to serve the citizens of Pinal County. I will tell you my decision has been extremely popular with the citizens, and it is by far the most nonpartisan thing that I’ve experienced, because I have had people from all walks of life stop me when I’m grocery shopping or I’ll be at public events thanking me for what I did.

LAUREN GILGER: Yeah, it does seem to be an issue that crosses party lines entirely. What do folks say? I mean, thanking you, what are their concerns about this technology? Is it they know about that database? Are they concerned they’re being surveilled, essentially?

ROSS TEEPLE: Yes. That is their big concern is — I was taught in the academy when I went through the police academy that if I track someone electronically to the degree that if I did it in person, it would be considered harassment, then that’s a concern, and I have to get a warrant.

So if I followed you when you left your house and went to the grocery store and then followed you from the grocery store to your work and followed you all day long, you’d have a reasonable complaint that I’m harassing you. They’re worried about the fact that a private corporation is building a database where they can do that.

LAUREN GILGER: Yeah. Do we know, Sheriff, where this data is stored, for how long, who has access to it, things like that? It sounds like those are questions you were trying to get answers to.

ROSS TEEPLE: Yes, ma’am. And I definitely believe that not only the citizens of Pinal County, but of the United States want to know what’s where the data is stored and how it’s being used.

LAUREN GILGER: So in the age of AI — and this is the last question I have for you, with this kind of big-picture look at this, right? Like, we’re in this world in which, I mean, anybody can be recording anyone almost at any time. I think a lot of people assume that anything they’re doing is probably being recorded somewhere. I mean, do you think that these issues of data and privacy and security and surveillance for people are going to become more and more salient and more and more present for law enforcement like you?

ROSS TEEPLE: I think so. And I mean, if there’s one takeaway is AI is currently polling worse than Congress, so that’s got to tell you something.

LAUREN GILGER: It certainly does. All right, we’ll leave it there. Sheriff Ross Teeple joining us from Pinal County. Sheriff, thank you very much for coming back on The Show. Appreciate it.

ROSS TEEPLE: Thank you. I appreciate you getting the word out there and the information out there.